Corona virus and your shul

[israshot]

If I'll manage I will post later on a video that is going around on WhatsApp of the bochurim that arrived in Israel being told their status. They are basically all being moved to isolation at a hotel in Jerusalem. Each getting their own room. Anyone presenting symptoms will be moved to a medical facility. Health ministry is assuming anyone arriving from Crown Heights is positive.

https://twitter.com/IsraelScholte/status/1240660777687793672?s=19

All videos with the hotel tour...

[CountValentine]

In (most) groups that I saw, people were behaving in a correct manner.

Then it is a failure. "Most" is not good enough.

[Galitzyaner]

Then it is a failure. "Most" is not good enough.

The exceptions (hence the "most") don't adhere to rabbinic authorities in any case (anarchists*). The majority who do listen, were also obeying the rules.


(*which may help you understand why some were arrested by NYS Sherrifs/NYPD last night. I'm not providing more details.)

[TimT]

The exceptions (hence the "most") don't adhere to rabbinic authorities in any case (anarchists*). The majority who do listen, were also obeying the rules.


(*which may help you understand why some were arrested by NYS Sherrifs/NYPD last night. I'm not providing more details.)

Those few will infect the ones obeying the rules.

[Galitzyaner]

Those few will infect the ones obeying the rules.

Very unlikely.

[CountValentine]

Very unlikely.

How do you think this virus is spreading? These same people taking the precautions you are talking about may already be infected and not know it. 

[Galitzyaner]

How do you think this virus is spreading? These same people taking the precautions you are talking about may already be infected and not know it.

FWIU the going assumption in Brooklyn is that you most likely already have it anyway. That's why everyone without exceptions should have absolutely no physical contact/closeness with anyone at risk (over 60 yo, and those with underlying conditions), who should be completely isolating themselves anyhow.

[ExGingi]

FWIU the going assumption in Brooklyn is that you most likely already have it anyway. That's why everyone without exceptions should have absolutely no physical contact/closeness with anyone at risk (over 60 yo, and those with underlying conditions), who should be isolating themselves completely.

Indeed. I have no reason to assume that the vast majority of the community has not already been infected.

[mochjas]

Update: still no confirmed cases in Lakewood. And yes there is testing in Chemed. Koach Hatorah!

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1841216/ny-nj-update-another-300-cases-in-bp-kiryas-yoel-dr-makes-frightening-prediction-ny-cases-surge-past-4000-dozens-in-lakewood.html

[israshot]

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1841216/ny-nj-update-another-300-cases-in-bp-kiryas-yoel-dr-makes-frightening-prediction-ny-cases-surge-past-4000-dozens-in-lakewood.html

@dealfinder11 will tell you that it's because they closed the shuls and yeshivas...

[zh cohen]

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1841216/ny-nj-update-another-300-cases-in-bp-kiryas-yoel-dr-makes-frightening-prediction-ny-cases-surge-past-4000-dozens-in-lakewood.html

Yesterday someone proudly told me they didn't have a single case in KJ...

[RewardsAddict]

Yesterday someone proudly told me they didn't have a single case in KJ...

Of course they didnt. It takes two days for the tests to come back.

[chevron]

https://vosizneias.com/2020/03/19/dr-ditchek-declares-dont-go-to-shul-if-you-go-you-are-a-sinner-and-potential-murderer/

[EliJelly]

Yesterday someone proudly told me they didn't have a single case in KJ...

From Dr. Zelinka, A long time practitioner in KJ.
https://ahblicklive.com/post.php?id=1863

[skyguy918]

https://vosizneias.com/2020/03/19/dr-ditchek-declares-dont-go-to-shul-if-you-go-you-are-a-sinner-and-potential-murderer/

Wow, was gonna comment on what a dumpster fire the comments are (as usual), but there's a gem in there too, with some interesting mareh mekomos:

Physician March 19, 2020 12:19 pm at 12:19 pm

Dr. Ditchek’s statement is in line with what world-renowned medical experts have been saying.

I was a resident when Dr. Ditchek was chief resident at SUNY Downstate. He is very bright. I trust him.

I know Rabbi Aaron Glatt MD, an infectious disease expert who was one of the brightest fellows at SUNY Downstate in the 1980s, and became a national expert in infectious diseases. I trust him.

I did a rotation in 1987 at the National Institutes of Health under Anthony Fauci decades ago. He is one of the best infectious disease experts in the world. I trust him.

I have watched a recent interview with Dr. W. Ian Lipkin, a world-renowned epidemiologist. I trust him.

I have studied medical halacha for decades, including at the annual Yarchei Kallah on Medical Halacha [www.j-c-r.org], which has featured the most prominent halachic authorities, and this sugya has been covered at length; indeed, there are clear-cut marei mekomos on this.

For example, see:

Baba Kamma 60b, including the Rashash, and see Shmiras haNefesh, perek 184, for a relatively lengthy discussion about plague, citing the Remo, Mishnah Berura, and other sources; see also Rav Tvzi Gutman’s chapter on rodef in Arzei haLevanon, wherein he classifies an unintentional person who endangers others as a rodef who may be stopped via extreme means; see Rav Akiva Eiger’s teshuva on the plague in 1831, and the harsh measures he took to stop the plague, earning him commendation by the King of Prussia.

This plague is unique in history.

It is apparently much more deadly than seasonal flu [which typically kills up to 300,000 people every year]. Data so far suggest this virus can kill at least 10 times and perhaps 35 times that number, ie 10 million people. Furthermore, it can kills over 20% of elderly people who contract it, and 5% or more of individuals with medical conditions like heart disease, lung disease, and diabetes.

After someone contracts the virus, he/she may not show any symptoms for several days, perhaps up to 2 weeks. During that time, anyone who comes within several feet of that person, as well as someone who may touch an item or counter-top which the carrier has touched, can get infected.

As noted, going to any crowded location, such as a supermarket, can expose dozens of people to the virus.

Each infected person typically infects 2 or more others. Do the math, and you’ll see that someone who goes to a large minyan indoors will almost certainly infect several other people, these will infect several other people, and within 10 days or so one person may have caused infections in well over 100 people.

These are the facts as we know them.

Once informed of the facts during a White House conference call, over a dozen chassidic rebbes took action [Satmar Rebbe, Gerrer Rebbe, Belzer Rebbe, etc], essentially closing their shuls and almost all yeshivas].

The Eidah Chareidis is working with the State of Israel to deal with this.

This is a worldwide crisis, with international experts trying to prevent what has happened in countries like Italy, where a lackadaisical response has led to the death of thousands.

What is the danger? With such high numbers of people becoming sick, hospitals may be overwhelmed. There are simply not enough ICU beds nor enough ventilators for the number of people expected at present to become seriously ill. Ask people working in hospitals or ask Hatzolah members to verify the increasing number of members of our community who have to be hospitalized.

When many people do not follow directives, the ratio will only grow, and more people will die, chas v’sholom.

Is it worth it for people to die because you want to go to minyan?

If someone needs food, there are people who are not infected or who have recovered who might be able to help. There are delivery services. Food is a necessity to stay alive. Davening in a minyan is not a necessity to stay alive. We would not steal food from someone to stay alive, would we? Yet, we are willing to cause the death of someone so that we can go to a minyan?

Finally, articles in the NY Times about supposed defiance by “the” chassidic community have gone viral. Millions of people are being taught that frum Jews do not care about their very lives, and are willfully spreadling a fatal disease. This is beyond a chillul HaShem. This is creating a sakanah for Yidden that makes the phrase ‘mipnai aivah” inadequate, and recall that we are mechalel Shabbos mipnai aivah.

Don’t let speculation, ignorance or a false frumkeit [see Alei Shor on frumkeit] stand in the way of protecting your life, the lives of your friends and neighbors, and the lives of our elderly and those with medical conditions.

[shwarmabob]

Don't you love being in the front page?

https://nypost.com/2020/03/19/new-jersey-cops-break-up-two-large-weddings-amid-coronavirus-restrictions/

[ExGingi]

Has anyone heard any guidance about what happens to קריאת התורה of ויקהל-פקודי and פרשת החודש? Will they be lumped together with ויקרא (assuming by then we will be allowed to congregate)?

[chbochur]

Has anyone heard any guidance about what happens to קריאת התורה of ויקהל-פקודי and פרשת החודש? Will they be lumped together with ויקרא (assuming by then we will be allowed to congregate)?

From your local rabbonim
https://asktherav.com/tashlumin-of-krias-hatorah-due-to-the-coronavirus-outbreak-forcing-shuls-to-close/

[Sam Finkelstein]

Shul next door just sent out another text that they're trying to arrange mincha this afternoon. What do these people think they're doing??

[YaDrebin95]

Has anyone heard any guidance about what happens to קריאת התורה of ויקהל-פקודי and פרשת החודש? Will they be lumped together with ויקרא (assuming by then we will be allowed to congregate)?

I received this on a WhatsApp chat, written by R' Kelinman:

Please be aware of the following halachic considerations which arise in this unique situation (reviewed by Maran Harav Shmuel Kamenetsky, Shlita).
 
1. It is preferable daven shacharis k’vasikin (some poskim compare the zechus of tefilla k’vasikin to tefila b’tzibbur).
 
2. As there are no time constraints and no need to keep up with a minyan, you should say Korbanos including pittum haketores - especially during this precarious time.
 
3. It is preferable to daven shmone esrei by a wall. In general, one should daven in a quiet, designated place, with shoes & proper attire, as is appropriate for kavod hatefilla. Remember - WE NEED THE TEFILLOS NOW MORE THAN EVER.
 
4. Tachnun is to be said seated, but without nefilas apayim.
 
5. Since you will be davening b’yechidus, once Z’man Mincha K’tana has arrived, eating more than 2 k’zaysim of mezonos, engaging in work or napping, is forbidden, until you daven Mincha. If you appoint a shomer to remind you, then you may eat & work.
 
6. Upon Tzeis Hakochavim, eating more than 2 k’zaysim of mezonos, engaging in work or napping, is forbidden, until you say k’rias shma & daven Maariv. If you appoint a shomer to remind you, then you may eat & work.
 
7. On Shabbos you should read the Parsha & Haftorah from a Chumash. This can count as one of the two times of Mikra for the obligation of Shnayim Mikra V’echad Targum.
 
8. On Shabbos you should only say the Yekum Purkan which pertains to the individual, not the one pertaining to the tzibbur.
 
9. On Shabbos Mincha you should say “v’ani tefilasi etc.” even though there is no k’rias hatorah.
 
Wishing everyone all the best, & with tefillos for yeshuas Hashem b’karov,
 
Daniel Osher Kleinman