United Crew Shames Woman Who Won’t Move Seats Due To Demand From Men

[Dan]

That same newscast had an earlier segment, starting about 14:15, showing men and women who dissuade women from getting on a bus, or tell them to sit in the back.  So the listeners are primed to believe the plane story, which comes towards the end of the broadcast.

I have seen comments from people sticking up for Neria saying that even if it didn't happen, it certainly could have happened.

I don't doubt that, but what is their point? That it's ok to humiliate Nigel due to collective punishment?

[Yehuda57]

I have seen comments from people sticking up for Neria saying that even if it didn't happen, it certainly could have happened.

I don't doubt that, but what is their point? That it's ok to humiliate Nigel due to collective punishment?

There should be a term for someone making assumptions about another person based on their race or religion.

[biobook]

I have seen comments from people sticking up for Neria saying that even if it didn't happen, it certainly could have happened.

I don't doubt that, but what is their point? That it's ok to humiliate Nigel due to collective punishment?

I see two separate issues:

1. It's problematic when men feel the need to constrain women's location in public transportation.  That is obviously bothering lots of people, and they support Neria's perspective, that an individual man doesn't have the right to tell a woman to move away because he doesn't want her there (for whatever reason).

2. It's problematic when a news reporter, who is expected to provide a truthful account of what has transpired, presents just one side of a story and calls those who disagree liars, and especially when this is a story in which she herself is the protagonist.  This is the part that most of us here are responding to, but the general public is so engrossed with the issues in (1) that they are not even grappling with (2).

[TimT]

but what is their point?

anti-chareidi/anti-right

[Dan]

Do we have a working definition of Haredi?

Bump

[ExGingi]

Bump

This has been my claim for as long as I can remember. There isn't one. It's a meaningless label.

Though for purposes of this story what she saw as "Charedi" was a black yarmulka. The no-beard and blue shirt would probably add the adjective "modern" to the "Charedi".

[Euclid]

working Haredi

Talk about a loaded term

[imayid2]

The no-beard and blue shirt would probably add the adjective "modern" to the "Charedi".

Not really

[sguitarist18]

I see two separate issues:

1. It's problematic when men feel the need to constrain women's location in public transportation.  That is obviously bothering lots of people, and they support Neria's perspective, that an individual man doesn't have the right to tell a woman to move away because he doesn't want her there (for whatever reason).

2. It's problematic when a news reporter, who is expected to provide a truthful account of what has transpired, presents just one side of a story and calls those who disagree liars, and especially when this is a story in which she herself is the protagonist.  This is the part that most of us here are responding to, but the general public is so engrossed with the issues in (1) that they are not even grappling with (2).

I think it's also important to note that in areas where the population is vast majority chareidi, and the custom is for men and women to sit in different sections, this is not something the men make the women do - it's something that both genders agree with, based on their shared value.

If I, as a male, went to sit in the back of the bus to "show solidarity with them," they wouldn't be appreciative, they'd be uncomfortable or angry. 

[rbs-g1.5]

1. It's problematic when men feel the need to constrain women's location in public transportation.  That is obviously bothering lots of people, and they support Neria's perspective, that an individual man doesn't have the right to tell a woman to move away because he doesn't want her there (for whatever reason).with (2).

Nobody is constraining women's location in flights. I find it hard to believe that any honest not hating person would have a hard time accepting the fact that some men feel it inappropriate to spend hours( sleeping eating and drinking while )squeezed closely next to a non related woman. Obviously this is nobody's right to demand  ,but there is nothing wrong with a polite request to appropriately rearrange seats  . This has been done many times daily for tens of years with no problem. The fact that you have an occasional idiot who doesn't know how to ask nicely is very unfortunate ,but has nothing to do with the main issue.

[Yo ssi]

You can always ask politely. You don't have to specify a reason, though usually one is given as otherwise it is strange.
Things to ensure: (This is the same when you're trying to sit with family or any other reason.)
1) The seat you are asking them to switch to is the same or better than what they are in.
2) Be ready for and accept a no. Even if it seems they have no reason to refuse and are just doing it to be spiteful, they have every right to be, and there might be a reason for that preference that you don't realize. If you absolutely cannot fly sitting next to a woman you need to purchase two seats.

https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/southwest/fly-southwest-may-24th-bring-along-companion-free-6-weeks/

[biobook]

I think it's also important to note that in areas where the population is vast majority chareidi, and the custom is for men and women to sit in different sections, this is not something the men make the women do - it's something that both genders agree with, based on their shared value.

I don't know about that.  IIRC, when the Monsey/Square - NY bus first started, it was men in the front and women in the back, in different sections, which "both genders agreed with".  Until some of the women spoke up and protested that it was men who were making them sit in the back and they didn't agree at all.  And after that it became men on the right, women on the left. 

Maybe someone else remembers this?

[imayid2]

I don't know about that.  IIRC, when the Monsey/Square - NY bus first started, it was men in the front and women in the back, in different sections, which "both genders agreed with".  Until some of the women spoke up and protested that it was men who were making them sit in the back and they didn't agree at all.  And after that it became men on the right, women on the left. 

Maybe someone else remembers this?

Mehadrin in Israel used to have separate buses so everyone could get to sit in the front, but it was ruled discriminatory.

[imayid2]

Nobody is constraining women's location in flights. I find it hard to believe that any honest not hating person would have a hard time accepting the fact that some men feel it inappropriate to spend hours( sleeping eating and drinking while )squeezed closely next to a non related woman. Obviously this is nobody's right to demand  ,but there is nothing wrong with a polite request to appropriately rearrange seats  . This has been done many times daily for tens of years with no problem. The fact that you have an occasional idiot who doesn't know how to ask nicely is very unfortunate ,but has nothing to do with the main issue.

Leaving aside “inappropriate”, it’s plain old uncomfortable because trying a bit harder not to bump in to the person sitting next to you confines your space even more.

[whacked1]

I see two separate issues:

1. It's problematic when men feel the need to constrain women's location in public transportation.  That is obviously bothering lots of people, and they support Neria's perspective, that an individual man doesn't have the right to tell a woman to move away because he doesn't want her there (for whatever reason).

When i flew last summer on United TLV > NYC, it was a group of seminary girls making the whole commotion regarding seating.

[ExGingi]

Not really

Why not (for Israelis)?

[biobook]

Why not (for Israelis)?

I would have said "dati".  Is that no longer used?

[imayid2]

Why not (for Israelis)?

Critical point here is that we’re discussing the stereotype image of Israeli Chareidy, which is what the culture war there is about. He wouldn’t appear Modern Orthodox in comparing to American Chareidim. Appearing “dati” is more accurate, like biobook points out.

[Dan]

I need definitions for these labels.

[Dan]

https://twitter.com/DansDeals/status/1692304045388558711