Messianism among Lubavitch

[Dan]

Given the prominence given to "Yechi" it has such as being embroidered into yarmulkas and the like simply calling it a small part of the belief system is not credible to an outsider. In order to be credible it needs to give an understanding about how "Yechi" comes into the picture. The other option is to disavow it, but that is much more than disavowing the loons who changed the siddur.

Having been to hundreds of Chabad Houses around the world, I can't even recall a handful where I've seen Yechi yalmulkahs.
Not that I have a problem with it, but calling it common is silly.

[churnbabychurn]

Is this really happening again?

[henche]

Having been to hundreds of Chabad Houses around the world, I can't even recall a handful where I've seen Yechi yalmulkahs.
Not that I have a problem with it, but calling it common is silly.

Agreed, they're ubiquitous, but not common. If you walk around in CH, you won't see most wearing one, but you'll see a handful, which will stick out.

[henche]

Is this really happening again?

You're right.

[aygart]

Having been to hundreds of Chabad Houses around the world, I can't even recall a handful where I've seen Yechi yalmulkahs.

I and most others haven't been. I have seen it often enough there and in papers dropped in shuls and other places to see that it is at the very least a very vocal minority to the extent that there is a feeling that it should be addressed.

[Dan]

I and most others haven't been. I have seen it often enough there and in papers dropped in shuls and other places to see that it is at the very least a very vocal minority to the extent that there is a feeling that it should be addressed.

I think most people have encountered Chabad houses when they travel.

Regardless, how exactly should a vocal fringe be addressed?

[aygart]

Not that I have a problem with it, but calling it common is silly.

Do you understand why an outsider would? Do you understand why this

Agreed, they're ubiquitous, but not common. If you walk around in CH, you won't see most wearing one, but you'll see a handful, which will stick out.

will make people feel it is more than a small part of the belief system?

[aygart]

I think most people have encountered Chabad houses when they travel.

Regardless, how exactly should a vocal fringe be addressed?

Most people don't travel.

[aygart]

Regardless, how exactly should a vocal fringe be addressed?

What do you think would have happened if a fringe group in Ponovez started proclaiming the R' Shach was moshiach?

[Dan]

What do you think would have happened if a fringe group in Ponovez started proclaiming the R' Shach was moshiach?

Good for them?
There's plenty of halachic basis for them to stand on.

[henche]

What do you think would have happened if a fringe group in Ponovez started proclaiming the R' Shach was moshiach?

What do you think would happen if they had a civil war in the yeshiva?

[aygart]

What do you think would happen if they had a civil war in the yeshiva?

What happened when there was? How is that relevant?

[henche]

What happened when there was? How is that relevant?

Just pointing out that the assumption that any action would be taken against extreme lunacy is not borne out by the fact that they had uber-lunacy going on and it just kept going.

[aygart]

Good for them?
There's plenty of halachic basis for them to stand on.

My point is not whether there is halachic basis but rather to explain why someone on the outside does not find it credible that the "Moshiach thing" is a small part of the belief system. The first step in changing the way outsiders view something is to understand where that view comes from.

[aygart]

Just pointing out that the assumption that any action would be taken against extreme lunacy is not borne out by the fact that they had uber-lunacy going on and it just kept going.

Are you saying that you think it would have been overlooked? Swept under the carpet? I am not understanding your point. Explain like you would to a jury. (That is actually a very good analogy. Just like to a jury you need to be able to explain to people who do not understand the subject matter and are not really interested in getting a full understanding the same thing goes for this.)

[henche]

Are you saying that you think it would have been overlooked? Swept under the carpet? I am not understanding your point. Explain like you would to a jury. (That is actually a very good analogy. Just like to a jury you need to be able to explain to people who do not understand the subject matter and are not really interested in getting a full understanding the same thing goes for this.)

What's a jury? I have jury duty soon.

ponovezh has a civil war. They have warring factions taking over buildings. They have roshei yeshiva coming to say shiur with bodyguards.

is that really your example of how the litvish world excels at dealing with lunacy in its midst?

[aygart]

What's a jury? I have jury duty soon.

ponovezh has a civil war. They have warring factions taking over buildings. They have roshei yeshiva coming to say shiur with bodyguards.

is that really your example of how the litvish world excels at dealing with lunacy in its midst?

I don't think they excel at it in the slightest.

[aygart]

What's a jury? I have jury duty soon.

A jury is a group of people to whom some lawyers who themselves don't fully understand the subject matter of a dispute attempt to explain the intricacies of something they have no interest in hearing about but are expected to make decisions which can either be for large amounts of money or life changing or both in order to go back home where they really want to be.

[henche]

A jury is a group of people to whom some lawyers who themselves don't fully understand the subject matter of a dispute attempt to explain the intricacies of something they have no interest in hearing about but are expected to make decisions which can either be for large amounts of money or life changing or both in order to go back home where they really want to be.

Fascinating. I expect I'll learn more about it on jury duty.

I wonder if I'll ever meet that type of lawyer. They must be rad cool.

[ExGingi]

ponovezh has a civil war. They have warring factions taking over buildings. They have roshei yeshiva coming to say shiur with bodyguards.

FTFY

Haven't seen anything civil in that war.