Author Topic: Messianism among Lubavitch  (Read 180866 times)

Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1140 on: July 25, 2017, 10:27:57 AM »
Given the prominence given to "Yechi" it has such as being embroidered into yarmulkas and the like simply calling it a small part of the belief system is not credible to an outsider. In order to be credible it needs to give an understanding about how "Yechi" comes into the picture. The other option is to disavow it, but that is much more than disavowing the loons who changed the siddur.
Having been to hundreds of Chabad Houses around the world, I can't even recall a handful where I've seen Yechi yalmulkahs.
Not that I have a problem with it, but calling it common is silly.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1141 on: July 25, 2017, 10:30:11 AM »
Is this really happening again?

Offline henche

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1142 on: July 25, 2017, 10:31:04 AM »
Having been to hundreds of Chabad Houses around the world, I can't even recall a handful where I've seen Yechi yalmulkahs.
Not that I have a problem with it, but calling it common is silly.

Agreed, they're ubiquitous, but not common. If you walk around in CH, you won't see most wearing one, but you'll see a handful, which will stick out.

Offline henche

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1143 on: July 25, 2017, 10:31:44 AM »
Is this really happening again?

You're right.

Offline aygart

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1144 on: July 25, 2017, 10:37:02 AM »
Having been to hundreds of Chabad Houses around the world, I can't even recall a handful where I've seen Yechi yalmulkahs.
I and most others haven't been. I have seen it often enough there and in papers dropped in shuls and other places to see that it is at the very least a very vocal minority to the extent that there is a feeling that it should be addressed.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1145 on: July 25, 2017, 10:38:42 AM »
I and most others haven't been. I have seen it often enough there and in papers dropped in shuls and other places to see that it is at the very least a very vocal minority to the extent that there is a feeling that it should be addressed.
I think most people have encountered Chabad houses when they travel.

Regardless, how exactly should a vocal fringe be addressed?
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Offline aygart

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1146 on: July 25, 2017, 10:39:12 AM »
Not that I have a problem with it, but calling it common is silly.
Do you understand why an outsider would? Do you understand why this
Agreed, they're ubiquitous, but not common. If you walk around in CH, you won't see most wearing one, but you'll see a handful, which will stick out.
will make people feel it is more than a small part of the belief system?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1147 on: July 25, 2017, 10:39:45 AM »
I think most people have encountered Chabad houses when they travel.

Regardless, how exactly should a vocal fringe be addressed?
Most people don't travel.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1148 on: July 25, 2017, 10:41:00 AM »
Regardless, how exactly should a vocal fringe be addressed?
What do you think would have happened if a fringe group in Ponovez started proclaiming the R' Shach was moshiach?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1149 on: July 25, 2017, 10:45:31 AM »
What do you think would have happened if a fringe group in Ponovez started proclaiming the R' Shach was moshiach?
Good for them?
There's plenty of halachic basis for them to stand on.
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Offline henche

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1150 on: July 25, 2017, 10:45:45 AM »
What do you think would have happened if a fringe group in Ponovez started proclaiming the R' Shach was moshiach?

What do you think would happen if they had a civil war in the yeshiva?

Offline aygart

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1151 on: July 25, 2017, 10:47:01 AM »
What do you think would happen if they had a civil war in the yeshiva?
What happened when there was? How is that relevant?
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Offline henche

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1152 on: July 25, 2017, 10:49:24 AM »
What happened when there was? How is that relevant?

Just pointing out that the assumption that any action would be taken against extreme lunacy is not borne out by the fact that they had uber-lunacy going on and it just kept going.

Offline aygart

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1153 on: July 25, 2017, 10:49:29 AM »
Good for them?
There's plenty of halachic basis for them to stand on.
My point is not whether there is halachic basis but rather to explain why someone on the outside does not find it credible that the "Moshiach thing" is a small part of the belief system. The first step in changing the way outsiders view something is to understand where that view comes from.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1154 on: July 25, 2017, 10:52:29 AM »
Just pointing out that the assumption that any action would be taken against extreme lunacy is not borne out by the fact that they had uber-lunacy going on and it just kept going.
Are you saying that you think it would have been overlooked? Swept under the carpet? I am not understanding your point. Explain like you would to a jury. (That is actually a very good analogy. Just like to a jury you need to be able to explain to people who do not understand the subject matter and are not really interested in getting a full understanding the same thing goes for this.)
Feelings don't care about your facts