Messianism among Lubavitch

[Dan]

As we discussed up thread, and as is discussed in the video. It's not just esoteric quotes that caused this... - it's the actions, it's the whole "mori chomi shlita" hanhoga. Etc etc. Much much more.

You're repeating the same stuff from earlier in this thread that's been asked and answered. Ad nauseam.

[churnbabychurn]

You're repeating the same stuff from earlier in this thread that's been asked and answered. Ad nauseam.

Right. I'll stop here

[jj1000]

What is the cancer exactly? Can you define it and the problem with it?

Also numerous court battles and likely millions of dollars of legal fees is clearly allowing something to grow right?

[Dan]

Also numerous court battles and likely millions of dollars of legal fees is clearly allowing something to grow right?

TBH I don't follow those or read the chabad news sites. But what ever came out of all of that?

[jj1000]

TBH I don't follow those or read the chabad news sites. But what ever came out of all of that?

Maybe Exgingi can weigh in, but he's prob on the defending side

[MeirS]

TBH I don't follow those or read the chabad news sites. But what ever came out of all of that?

this. Not sure if much more, or if there's any ideal solution to the issues at hand.

likely millions of dollars of legal fees spent

[aygart]

What is the cancer exactly? Can you define it and the problem with it?

I just want to get one thing clear since both you and others have written thing which seem to be cotradictory and I must be misunderstanding some nuance of it. Do you agree or deny that there are some extreme fringes of Lubavitch who have gone to extremes which seem to be apikursus or very close to it?

[jj1000]

I just want to get one thing clear since both you and others have written thing which seem to be cotradictory and I must be misunderstanding some nuance of it. Do you agree or deny that there are some extreme fringes of Lubavitch who have gone to extremes which seem to be apikursus or very close to it?

There are people who call themselves Lubavitch that are like that, sure

[Dan]

I just want to get one thing clear since both you and others have written thing which seem to be cotradictory and I must be misunderstanding some nuance of it. Do you agree or deny that there are some extreme fringes of Lubavitch who have gone to extremes which seem to be apikursus or very close to it?

I was in a Litvish mosad for 9 years and heard all about how Chabad isn't Judaism.

I then spent 8 years in Chabad mosdos, some anti-meshichist, some meshichist, and I've never encountered anyone or anything that could remotely be construed as apikorsos.

I've always heard rumors of a few wacko "elokistim" that live in Tzfas. But if such people do exist, they are the .0001% loons that exist in every walk of life.

Most people take issue with the belief that the Rebbe could be moshiach, not of 3 loons in Tzfas. And people who think that there is any connection to apikorsus c"v or Shabsai Tzvi (who blatantly violated halacha) are simply ignorant of actual halacha.

[aygart]

There are people who call themselves Lubavitch that are like that, sure

I now what that wink is about. You said it yourself and there is no need for me to.

[aygart]

I was in a Litvish mosad for 9 years and heard all about how Chabad isn't Judaism.

From what I have seen of mainstream Chabad that sounds ridiculous

Shabsai Tzvi (who blatantly violated halacha)

The issues with Shabsai Tzvi were already before then.

[jj1000]

I now what that wink is about. You said it yourself and there is no need for me to.

you asked what seemed a really broad question. I'm answering that elokistim think they are Lubavitvh but that's in their mind they really are not Lubavitch. I can share a video with you of them and it'll prob help understand.

[AsherO]

I've a few litvish friends who love mussar and said they would happily commit suicide right now if they knew they would get into gan Eden after. That's a bit loony to me too.  But it's just an offshoot of musar right?

I smell a frum suicide cult, these guys are ripe for recruitment (we can then merge this thread with the silent killer thread).

[churnbabychurn]

I've a few litvish friends who love mussar and said they would happily commit suicide right now if they knew they would get into gan Eden after. That's a bit loony to me too.  But it's just an offshoot of musar right?

What does mussar have to do with suicide and gan Eden?
I'm so confused. You definitely are hanging out with the wrong crowd.

[thaber]

it's shocking that they don't have untouched beards, which is a basic requirement to be a Chabad chosid.

And likely a diorisah according to the tzemach tzedek iirc

They're more Satmar than those shaved dudes are Lubavitchers.

You guys are definitely due a visit to LA, but after those statements maybe bring body armor

The issues with Shabsai Tzvi were already before then.

IIRC that's when he lost mainstream backing.

What does mussar have to do with suicide and gan Eden?

+1. Mussar is not depressing, it's uplifting. Common Hasidic misconception

[Dan]

You guys are definitely due a visit to LA, but after those statements maybe bring body armor.

Lol, there's a reason it's called Klipafornia.
And I came for a week earlier this year and it rained almost every day

IIRC that's when he lost mainstream backing.

Yup.

Mussar is not depressing, it's uplifting. Common Hasidic misconception

As a 13 year old, hearing how our class was going to burn in hell just didn't do it for me.
Different strokes for different folks?

[henche]

What does mussar have to do with suicide and gan Eden?
I'm so confused. You definitely are hanging out with the wrong crowd.

-1
I am so not surprised that someone who is depressed would get more involved in mussar and it would feed in a loop

[Dan]

What does mussar have to do with suicide and gan Eden?
I'm so confused. You definitely are hanging out with the wrong crowd.

Mussar is not depressing, it's uplifting. Common Hasidic misconception

Saying they're the wrong crowd or that they don't exist is just cognitive dissonance.
Clearly you need to work on your image or do more to denounce the fringe

[henche]

Saying they're the wrong crowd or that they don't exist is just cognitive dissonance.
Clearly you need to work on your image or do more to denounce the fringe

Being depressed with mussar is not fringe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yisroel_Salanter

[thaber]

As a 13 year old, hearing how our class was going to burn in hell just didn't do it for me.
Different strokes for different folks?

that's not uplifting?
In the Yeshiva world Mussar is the study of self development, which is uplifting. Not fear mongering, which is not. Will OCD people feed into that @henche? maybe. But that's not what it is, in the colloquial sense, wikipedia notwithstanding.