Messianism among Lubavitch

[moish]

There is a diyuk in the Rambam, who says that if Moshiach is "neherag" he can't be Moshiach, it is very meduyek that if he's "meis" that he still can be Moshiach. It always suprises me that Chabadskers don't bring up that Rambam more often. Any open minded person would be very impressed with that Rambam.

are you familiar with the context of the rambam?

[Freddie]

No No NO NO!

It is just about as far from central as you can get. Which I tried to stress so many times in this thread. What you believe about the rebbe and mosiach or alive doesn't effect the chabad school of teaching and how to live even one iota IMHO.

JJ is right.

[coralsnake]

The vocal meshichistim believe by publicizing yechi that they will bring moshiach closer.

Unfortunately, it seems the flag-waivers do more to divide rather than uniting klal Yisroel.

[Dan]

Easier to waive flags than learn or ask people to put on tefilin...

[Freddie]

Unfortunately, it seems the flag-waivers do more to divide rather than uniting klal Yisroel.

Yup.

[good sam]

Anyone read the Prime Ministers?  Yehuda Avner tells of when he went to the Lubavitcher Rebbe to discuss the outcome of a meeting between Begin and Carter.  At the end of the conversation, the Rebbe asks Yehuda Avner why he hasn't yet become a Lubavitcher chassid. He answers (quite boldly) that it's because "there are those who attribute to the Rebbe that which the Rebbe does not attribute to himself."  The Rebbe's answer? "There are some who require a crutch."

Probably doesn't change anything for anyone but definitely interesting.

[Freddie]

Anyone read the Prime Ministers?  Yehuda Avner tells of when he went to the Lubavitcher Rebbe to discuss the outcome of a meeting between Begin and Carter.  At the end of the conversation, the Rebbe asks Yehuda Avner why he hasn't yet become a Lubavitcher chassid. He answers (quite boldly) that it's because "there are those who attribute to the Rebbe that which the Rebbe does not attribute to himself."  The Rebbe's answer? "There are some who require a crutch."

Probably doesn't change anything for anyone but definitely interesting.

Continue the story, nu!

[ganizzy]

There is  2 different things.  Moshiach and who is moshiach.
Moshiach is def. A central core belief and attitude in chabad.
Who is moshiach is a personal belief.
For ex. I personally believe the Rebbe is moshiach and i say yechi, however i don't discuss that with others unless i am asked.  My sons don't wear yechi yarmulkahs. I don't tell guests/mekuravim..  to say it.
However at a simcha it will be sung  (ie I'm not hiding it )

The extreme side would be flag waving,  pushing yechi in others. ...

The other side of the extreme would be not allowing yechi to be said in  a lubavitch shul or at a personal simcha (yes it's happened ) making sure to write zia...

Most people are in between. Either they say yechi or not but it's not a big issue

Everyone talks about moshiach.
In my kids school they learn inyanei geulah and moshiach. A few lines a day or a week about the times of moshiach

[Ergel]

@ganizzy Do you believe the rebbe died?

[ganizzy]

@ganizzy Do you believe the rebbe died?

It's hard for a chassid to say dead.
That being said, i go to the ohel, we went to the levaya.
So i guess the answer would be yes

[Baruch]

Which Chabadskers have you been talking to? It's probably THE source used when a Lubavitcher wants to explain why he believes the Rebbe is Moshiach. If we don't bring it up more often it's because we assume that anyone getting into the conversation about who Moshiach is would already know this Rambam.

All I hear from Chabadskers is "Yaakov avinu lo mes". That Rambam is very hard to argue.

[Baruch]

are you familiar with the context of the rambam?

yes. What's our point?

[Dan]

All I hear from Chabadskers is "Yaakov avinu lo mes".

What does that have to do with moshiach?

[Baruch]

What does that have to do with moshiach?

exactly!

[Achas Veachas]

All I hear from Chabadskers is "Yaakov avinu lo mes". That Rambam is very hard to argue.

That's to discuss the Rebbe's life. His being Moshiach is from the Rambam.

[Dan]

That's to discuss the Rebbe's life. His being Moshiach is from the Rambam.

There's a lot more than just that.

[whYME]

Easier to waive flags than learn or ask people to put on tefilin...

It's also easier to flat out, blanketly, denounce a whole group of people whose ideology you disagree with than to recognize what they are doing right.

It just happens to be, that generally speaking, the "flaggers" are amongst the most dedicated to learning and mivtzoim and "the Rebbe's inyonim" in general. Of course there are exceptions, but if you look at the average "flagger" bochur you'll find that to be the case.

I have plenty of problems with them and what they do, but I can also recognize what they do right.

[Dan]

You must have experience with different Israelis in 770 than I do.

[Freddie]

It's also easier to flat out, blanketly, denounce a whole group of people whose ideology you disagree with than to recognize what they are doing right.

It just happens to be, that generally speaking, the "flaggers" are amongst the most dedicated to learning and mivtzoim and "the Rebbe's inyonim" in general. Of course there are exceptions, but if you look at the average "flagger" bochur you'll find that to be the case.

I have plenty of problems with them and what they do, but I can also recognize what they do right.

As one "Chabadsker" to another, this is the point in the farbrengen at which I would throw potato salad at your face.

[Dan]

Alol