The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live

[Dan]

R Greenbaum turned the whole Cheder Menachem around and partnered up with Menachem Education Foundation, an organization in CH that trains principals and teachers.

The Rosh made a major overhaul 10 years ago with Zal's situation. It's currently one of the best Zals around.

I came with the incredible group of guys from Chicago in '01 that turned around the zal there.
But the mesivta was still a disaster back then. Has it improved?
Girls chabad high school also was nothing to brag about back then.

If you know how to avoid rush hour, LA traffic is really nothing to write home about.

You know. Those minor hours of 6am-10am and 3pm-7pm.

[MC]

You know. Those minor hours of 6am-10am and 3pm-7pm.

I drive Pico to La brea in the mornings and vice versa in the afternoons. I get to laugh and wave at the suckers stuck in traffic going the opposite way.

[CS1]

Has that much changed in chabad education in LA over the past decade?
When I was there it was notoriously awful.

it seems that the biggest increase in the quality of the overall Chabad education in LA
has been in the past 12 years.... It's obviously a process which takes time -- the students
may be introduced to higher standards when they are in 2nd grade, however, it could take 8 years until 10th
grade to see a noticeble difference in community standards and a bit more time to be huge enough make a city-wide impact.

Opinions can run the entire gamut, however, the facts on the ground show that it's worked, overall.
Some objective areas (I do not live there; but we have a lot of family there and we travel there a few times a year - "Thanks Dan!")

The Boys K - 8 school had a "new" principal (for the past 12-15 years?) who is dynamic, focused, and completely committed to improving the school,
the curriculum and the standards.
I believe that he works together with a network of other schools who have made this a priority as well...
There are also the Diamond Daveners groups in La Brea where the "Junior Minyan" in Bais Levi Yitzchok has a very organized,
structured age-based davening and activities program on Shabbos.
They've had Shabbatons and extra-curricular, supplemental trips during the week/weekend.
Pico has a similar type of system, I've heard.

The Bais Menachem shul has youth groups, child care, Mommy & Me positive growth social settings...
All these contribute to chinuch and family as being a focus and priority for raising the next generation...
When they are cared for, it truly helps the community to be a place where people want to invest for the long term.

[Yungerman]

I came with the incredible group of guys from Chicago in '01 that turned around the zal there.
But the mesivta was still a disaster back then. Has it improved?
Girls chabad high school also was nothing to brag about back then.
You know. Those minor hours of 6am-10am and 3pm-7pm.

Shiur Alef was always known as the "non-chassidish" shiur(it was a 'yerusha' from mesivta) until '04-5, when the Rosh virtually kicked out half the yeshiva. He became much more stricter with acceptance. The new building was then completed.

The girls high school wasn't ever chicago caliber, but we're comparing to MIA.

BTW Dan, tomorrow CLE is having a major simcha in MIA.

[Dan]

Shiur Alef was always known as the "non-chassidish" shiur(it was a 'yerusha' from mesivta) until '04-5, when the Rosh virtually kicked out half the yeshiva. He became much more stricter with acceptance. The new building was then completed.

The girls high school wasn't ever chicago caliber, but we're comparing to MIA.

BTW Dan, tomorrow CLE is having a major simcha in MIA.

Yup, I was there in '03 the rosh kicked out the entire shiur alef (i.e. the once who came up through the local mesivta). 

[CS1]

Shiur Alef was always known as the "non-chassidish" shiur(it was a 'yerusha' from mesivta) until '04-5, when the Rosh virtually kicked out half the yeshiva. He became much more stricter with acceptance. The new building was then completed.

The girls high school wasn't ever chicago caliber, but we're comparing to MIA.

BTW Dan, tomorrow CLE is having a major simcha in MIA.

He became much more stricter with acceptance.
...is that possible?...

The girls high school wasn't ever chicago caliber, but we're comparing to MIA.  -- funnnnnyyyy 

[Yungerman]

He became much more stricter with acceptance.
...is that possible?...

He started then making any prospective bochur come for the summer program as a trial. Half didn't pass.....

[Yungerman]

The LA mesivta is still better IMHO than Miami's. It's also MUCH larger.

[whYME]

The Bais Menachem shul has youth groups, child care, Mommy & Me positive growth social settings...
All these contribute to chinuch and family as being a focus and priority for raising the next generation...
When they are cared for, it truly helps the community to be a place where people want to invest for the long term.

You're joking, right?

[CS1]

You're joking, right?

about what -- the Shaarei Tefilla location on Beverly?

Great group, nice Kiddushim, awesome Rabbi (imo), and the parents can bring their children
to the upstairs remodeled rooms for learning, playing, and being present during Shabbos morning minyanim. Also, aren't there family-style
events, Purim, summer BBQs, etc..? When parents and children spend time together doing
activities and promoting  group/family events, then it shows that this is valued....

[whYME]

Great group, nice Kiddushim, awesome Rabbi (imo),

Agreed.

and the parents can bring their children
to the upstairs remodeled rooms for learning, playing, and being present during Shabbos morning minyanim. Also, aren't there family-style
events, Purim, summer BBQs, etc..? When parents and children spend time together doing
activities and promoting  group/family events, then it shows that this is valued....

Yes, that is a big plus. I like it there, I daven there whenever I'm in LA. That being said:
I was referring specifically to the "chinuch" aspect in the sense that in general (many of the parents in) that shul are not exactly dugma chayas of how a chossid should look and behave...

[CS1]

Agreed.
Yes, that is a big plus. I like it there, I daven there whenever I'm in LA. That being said:
I was referring specifically to the "chinuch" aspect in the sense that in general (many of the parents in) that shul are not exactly dugma chayas of how a chossid should look and behave...

+1
Yes, huge plus and a comfortable, welcoming place to daven.
I understand what you are respectfully saying --
and, seeing the trends over the past few years and what the various options, outcomes, and possibilities could be,
what is objectively apparent is that there is a solid, positive, personable group of people that attend Minyan weekly
and show their families that this is what we do.

The: 

dugma chayas of how a chossid should look and behave..

 
is another issue - mainly chitzonius,
...it's generally best to see and learn from the ma'alos of a person and their actions. These actions in this cases have been
positively connected to Yiddishkeit and iy"H it will continue to be encouraged and grow. B"H to have such a great option and location in LA!

[whYME]

mainly chitzonius,

No comment.

I'm not trying to bash BM / Shaarei Tefillah, just pointing out that it's indicative of what's wrong with LA in general...

[CS1]

No comment.
I'm not trying to bash BM / Shaarei Tefillah, just pointing out that it's indicative of what's wrong with LA in general...

I understand;
however, do you agree that this is a positive option?
much better than not having an alternative, and that it has the potential to spur growth in Chassidishkiet and an ongoing overall great, personable atmosphere?

[whYME]

Anyone here familiar with Chicago (West Rogers Park) housing situation?
What's available rental-wise? What does it cost to buy a house?

Other than the weather, what are the cons of Chicago?

[Dan]

Anyone here familiar with Chicago (West Rogers Park) housing situation?

Costs more than CLE, less than NYC...

Other than the weather, what are the cons of Chicago?

Traffic can be horrendous.

[whYME]

Costs more than CLE, less than NYC...

lol
That much I figured out on my own, I was kinda hoping for something a little more detailed

[3yummyboys]

Frankly I wonder why so many Jews stay in NYC. I understand family is often a big part of where you live and many Jews got off the boat in NYC and simply haven't desired to venture any farther out, but is it really worth it?

I've been asking myself the same question with this crazy winter. Why would anyone live in NY? (spoken by someone who's lived in NY my entire life!) On the other hand, as opposed to living out of town, we have a ton of schools to choose from and can send our kids to the school of our choice. We have the convenience of 20 shuls within a 10 minute drive from our  house, basically a minyan at any time, tons of kosher restaurants and supermarkets to choose from and a variety of frum communities of every type.
Although I have to admit after being in LA last week, I was really tempted to move ...

[whYME]

So I've gotten more speeding tickets in my one day in CLE than in my previous 10 years in NYC...

The curse of the Photo DOs.

[Shkop]

Too much talk about LA/MIA/NY/NJ/CLE etc

Broaden your horizons. Think about the Holy Land. Huge Mitzvah? check.

Get to hear kohen's priestly blessing daily (or duchin if you are a kohen)? check.

Get to visit kosel, miaras hamachpeila, kever rachel, gravesites of thousands of great men? Check.

Can choose from a wide variety of communities, including American olim, so that the fit is right? Check

Yes there are challenges, I can run through a whole list of them, but the Holy Land is nikne biyisurin.

Nothing beats Israel ever.