Author Topic: Kosher Switch (Read 80422 times)

yakov116 · « **Reply #160 on:** April 15, 2015, 09:23:36 PM »

Quote from: avromie7 on April 15, 2015, 07:31:34 PM

You make it sound like I always come out screaming that everyone is wrong, there are many other times where i disagree and don't comment because you follow your rabbi and i will follow mine, however there are some cases where it's more than that like when R' Moshe says they are wrong.

I am sorry for coming out like that I was just in the mood of being snappy

avromie7 · « **Reply #161 on:** April 15, 2015, 09:26:18 PM »

Quote from: yakov116 on April 15, 2015, 09:23:36 PM

I am sorry for coming out like that I was just in the mood of being snappy

OK I'll forgive you

ShlockDoc · « **Reply #162 on:** April 15, 2015, 09:45:52 PM »

Ok, CM, the thread's been moved. Hop aboard!

ShlockDoc · « **Reply #163 on:** April 15, 2015, 09:47:03 PM »

Quote from: yakov116 on April 15, 2015, 09:23:01 PM

That has nothing to do with YOU! Hashem gave us the torah to learn and he gave the rabbi the power to say a law after understanding it.

But ~~some~~ all make mistakes. That's not taking anything away from them, they're human.

yakov116 · « **Reply #164 on:** April 15, 2015, 09:50:57 PM »

Quote from: ShlockDoc on April 15, 2015, 09:47:03 PM

But ~~some~~ all make mistakes. That's not taking anything away from them, they're human.

Come again?

ChaimMoskowitz · « **Reply #165 on:** April 16, 2015, 12:28:12 AM »

Quote from: ShlockDoc on April 15, 2015, 09:45:52 PM

Ok, CM, the thread's been moved. Hop aboard!

HAVE YOU ALL LOST YOUR MIND? Kosher switch? This is nothing but a scam, sham, trick, loophole or a hundred other things. One thing it is not is "kosher". This is not some CC T&C's you are trying to justify. Who do you think you are fooling here? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your creator? Good luck with that one.

coralsnake · « **Reply #166 on:** April 16, 2015, 12:31:11 AM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on April 16, 2015, 12:28:12 AM

HAVE YOU ALL LOST YOUR MIND? Kosher switch? This is nothing but a scam, sham, trick, loophole or a hundred other things. One thing it is not is "kosher". This is not some CC T&C's you are trying to justify. Who do you think you are fooling here? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your creator? Good luck with that one.

When you find where the Creator forbids turning on lights on Shabbos, or references the closing of a circuit in any way, please let me know.

ShlockDoc · « **Reply #167 on:** April 16, 2015, 12:33:51 AM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on April 16, 2015, 12:28:12 AM

HAVE YOU ALL LOST YOUR MIND? Kosher switch? This is nothing but a scam, sham, trick, loophole or a hundred other things. One thing it is not is "kosher". This is not some CC T&C's you are trying to justify. Who do you think you are fooling here? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your creator? Good luck with that one.

That must have felt good. You were holding it in for a while...

ChaimMoskowitz · « **Reply #168 on:** April 16, 2015, 12:38:14 AM »

Quote from: coralsnake on April 16, 2015, 12:31:11 AM

When you find where the Creator forbids turning on lights on Shabbos, or references the closing of a circuit in any way, please let me know.

If that is the case then no need for something that is not forbidden. Why play these silly games?

ChaimMoskowitz · « **Reply #169 on:** April 16, 2015, 12:41:22 AM »

Quote from: ShlockDoc on April 16, 2015, 12:33:51 AM

That must have felt good. You were holding it in for a while...

Not sure what felt better. This or the Hawks win in double overtime.

coralsnake · « **Reply #170 on:** April 16, 2015, 12:42:22 AM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on April 16, 2015, 12:38:14 AM

If that is the case then no need for something that is not forbidden. Why play these silly games?

What are you now a Tzadduki? $:-\$

ChaimMoskowitz · « **Reply #171 on:** April 16, 2015, 12:44:21 AM »

Quote from: coralsnake on April 16, 2015, 12:42:22 AM

What are you now a Tzadduki? $:-\$

Just an average joe that uses the common sense I was given.

coralsnake · « **Reply #172 on:** April 16, 2015, 12:48:33 AM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on April 16, 2015, 12:44:21 AM

Just an average joe that uses the common sense I was given.

Ill bet that's what all the tzaddukim say

ChaimMoskowitz · « **Reply #173 on:** April 16, 2015, 12:51:38 AM »

Quote from: coralsnake on April 16, 2015, 12:48:33 AM

Ill bet that's what all the tzaddukim say

They would say they have been doing this their whole life and know what they are talking about. I have been doing this for about 15 minutes.

coralsnake · « **Reply #174 on:** April 16, 2015, 12:58:11 AM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on April 16, 2015, 12:51:38 AM

They would say they have been doing this their whole life and know what they are talking about. I have been doing this for about 15 minutes.

I think you may be confusing "Tzadduki" for "Tzaddik". Very different things.

ChaimMoskowitz · « **Reply #175 on:** April 16, 2015, 01:00:47 AM »

Quote from: coralsnake on April 16, 2015, 12:58:11 AM

I think you may be confusing "Tzadduki" for "Tzaddik". Very different things.

That's all google comes up with.

ShlockDoc · « **Reply #176 on:** April 16, 2015, 01:02:26 AM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on April 16, 2015, 01:00:47 AM

That's all google comes up with.

They're referring to these guys:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadducees

Although I'm not sure what they have to do with common sense.

coralsnake · « **Reply #177 on:** April 16, 2015, 01:21:28 AM »

Quote from: ShlockDoc on April 16, 2015, 01:02:26 AM

They're referring to these guys:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadducees

Although I'm not sure what they have to do with common sense.

Correct.

I'll simplify it for CM:
[from Wikipedia page under 'beliefs']
"The Sadducees rejected the Oral Law as proposed by the Pharisees. Rather, they saw the Torah as the sole source of divine authority."

They only believed that which was explicitly written in the Torah. None of this "tradition from Moses" or "I hold like this Rabbi" business.

ganizzy · « **Reply #178 on:** April 16, 2015, 01:47:38 AM »

Cm, i don't necessarily agree with the kosher switch. I think it's a slippery slope, it has strong elements of maris ayin. And if u use it all week in reg mode, it will be hard to remember on shabbos to wait for the green light, especially if kids are involved. And many other reasons.
But the reason its not a scam is very simple. What's not allowed is to create a fire. in today's day, to create a current. So if you're not creating that current then you're not doing something wrong. People disagree on what is considered not causing that action. And that's a large part of the discussion.
For those that feel it's indirect enough not to be the person causing the light to go on, then for them its kosher.
And there is plenty other scams to rant about. Selling chometz, selling a field for shemitta, indirectly asking a non jew....

yitrap · « **Reply #179 on:** April 16, 2015, 02:03:36 AM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on April 16, 2015, 12:28:12 AM

HAVE YOU ALL LOST YOUR MIND? Kosher switch? This is nothing but a scam, sham, trick, loophole or a hundred other things. One thing it is not is "kosher". This is not some CC T&C's you are trying to justify. Who do you think you are fooling here? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your creator? Good luck with that one.

Hehehe hello, I've been waiting to see what you'd say

Now to play a little devils advocate...
As far as Halocha goes it really seems he's gotten proper haskamos from serious people, especially his top 3-4 people, I personally don't think I would use such a thing in my house just because it would feel weird (putting aside the whole ameria le'akum issue) but I don't know that I would tell my children not to (again putting aside the issue of weakening the stringencies regarding light switches on shabbos)

We all use timers in todays day and age, heck we all use electricity and don't think twice about it, lets not fool ourselves in ten years people will be halachicly driving cars talking on the phone and smoking (Albeit, I hope E-cig) on Shabbos... This is the Yeridas Ha'doros we have created and this is the generation we must deal with.

Look, there are a lot of "loopholes" people use now days, one day Yom Tov in EY, non kosher gum, "sefira" music, kashrus levels, tznius levels...the world around us has gone crazy and there are a few that can still pull it back together, I don't know if kosher switch is right or wrong but I definitely don't think its the first thing to attack.