Author Topic: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)  (Read 158529 times)

Online imayid2

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #840 on: January 01, 2023, 02:29:42 PM »
Both the Badatz and RFeldman reiterated that it should not be learned from in its current form.
I don’t know why you think they need to listen to Rabbi Feldman. I’ve explained the Badatzs position multiple times.

Offline aygart

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #841 on: January 01, 2023, 03:08:42 PM »
I don’t know why you think they need to listen to Rabbi Feldman. I’ve explained the Badatzs position multiple times.
They meant blah blah. Just look what they actually wrote.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online imayid2

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #842 on: January 01, 2023, 03:11:55 PM »
Just look what they actually wrote.
I keep asking you to pinpoint and you keep ignoring

Offline aygart

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #843 on: January 01, 2023, 03:20:46 PM »
I keep asking you to pinpoint and you keep ignoring
יש להמנע מללמוד?
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #844 on: January 01, 2023, 03:22:59 PM »
יש להמנע מללמוד?
Right so you’re pretending this kol koreh is a Rashba and ignoring the reasons they say and the pertinent background information and somehow holding it against these guys. Got it.

Offline aygart

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #845 on: January 01, 2023, 03:29:12 PM »
Right so you’re pretending this kol koreh is a Rashba and ignoring the reasons they say and the pertinent background information and somehow holding it against these guys. Got it.
No, you are making the "especially" into the whole thing. This is the very basic reading of what they wrote.
Just read the letter without your agenda and it is right there.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online imayid2

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #846 on: January 01, 2023, 03:41:52 PM »
No, you are making the "especially" into the whole thing. This is the very basic reading of what they wrote.
Just read the letter without your agenda and it is right there.
Lol
There are some mistakes that need to be fixed. There can be a חשש מכשול for people not adequately versed in Rishonim. That doesn’t mean, nor is it their intent, that they are demanding a cold turkey full stop of תלמידי חכמים who enjoy the style and to denounce their appreciation for it.

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #847 on: January 01, 2023, 03:47:21 PM »
Lol
There are some mistakes that need to be fixed. There can be a חשש מכשול for people not adequately versed in Rishonim. That doesn’t mean, nor is it their intent, that they are demanding a cold turkey full stop of תלמידי חכמים who enjoy the style and to denounce their appreciation for it.
And the chumashim can be still be found in many batay medrashim in E’Y, including Satmar Dushinskys etc, who understand the garbage going on, and care not a fizzle.

Offline aygart

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #848 on: January 01, 2023, 03:56:33 PM »
Lol
There are some mistakes that need to be fixed. There can be a חשש מכשול for people not adequately versed in Rishonim. That doesn’t mean, nor is it their intent, that they are demanding a cold turkey full stop of תלמידי חכמים who enjoy the style and to denounce their appreciation for it.
That is an interpretation but not related to what they wrote
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline jye

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #849 on: January 01, 2023, 04:07:49 PM »
I had 2 questions regarding this week's yated chinuch roundtable.

A) Where in shulchan aruch does it say that kids have to stand for adults or show them respect?

B) How many of the adults complaining stand up whenever someone 70+ walks into the room?

Where in shulchan aruch does it say to give a woman in her ninth month your seat on a bus? Where does it say to give a gut shabbos to the Rov? Where does it say you are supposed to give a Mazel tov to the Baal Simcha?

That’s what sechel was created for. Not everything has to be a ois in the mishnah berurah.  It should be self understood that adults standing for lack of seats and watching tables full of kids grabbing and eating all the food is a tzurah that is a הירוס of chinuch. And that’s not even considering that the adults are largely there to participate with the baal simcha while the kids are there to simply eat.

I used to live in a very large development in Lakewood a while back and still remember vividly when I made a shalom zachor. We came back from davening and had just washed when there was a banging on the door. I opened it to see a horde of young kids I didn’t recognize , unaccompanied by adults who had come to descend on the food. I politely sent them away but I was shocked. Where were their parents? To let your kids bang down the door of a Baal simcha they don’t even know half an hour after davening ends to grab some food?

Now I know the answer. No where in shulchan aruch does it say to watch your kids Friday night instead of letting them roam gang style. Unfortunately fast forward a dozen years or so and the פירות of this chinuch are quite ניכר.

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #850 on: January 01, 2023, 04:36:25 PM »
That is an interpretation but not related to what they wrote
You can continue to ignore the pertinent background information all you want, but that won’t make it go away.
Here is the follow up from רב פנחס חזן, who the Badatz appointed to deal with it, where he stresses that the issue is in regards to children and teaching children, and that he is under pressure to say more than that.




Offline aygart

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #851 on: January 01, 2023, 04:54:11 PM »


You can continue to ignore the pertinent background information all you want, but that won’t make it go away.
Here is the follow up from רב פנחס חזן, who the Badatz appointed to deal with it, where he stresses that the issue is in regards to children and teaching children, and that he is under pressure to say more than that.

So why wouldn't they just write not to learn it with children? The letter is not vague at all. If it was then it would be open to interpretation but it is not.

You keep going back to the marketing campaign while each and every letter is very clear.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #852 on: January 01, 2023, 06:06:12 PM »


I'm not familiar with this kind of kiddush, but may I humbly suggest that kids have their own kiddush or at the very least their own tables? They can be responsible to set and clean up, as well as be responsible for the Torah that needs to be shared at the kiddush.

And this might be crazy talk, but girls can have their own kiddush too.

Offline dm123

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #853 on: January 01, 2023, 06:17:41 PM »


I'm not really familiar with the wzo parsha, can someone please explain it to me? From what I understand a (large?) number of gedolim oppose it based on the historical opposition of many gedolim to joining/participating with zionists/zionism. However, from what I understand, many gedolim post war allowed participation/voting in the zionist/Israeli governerment. So Ma nishtana between voting in Israeli elections and wzo?

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #854 on: January 01, 2023, 06:28:55 PM »
So why wouldn't they just write not to learn it with children? The letter is not vague at all. If it was then it would be open to interpretation but it is not.

You keep going back to the marketing campaign while each and every letter is very clear.
he is under pressure to say more than that.
I am tiring of repeating this, but to somehow see a taana/psul here to the targeted point these fellows are making because they learn and enjoy the Chumash, from the fact that it doesn’t shtim perfectly with how you’re reading the badatzs kol koreh, is absurd.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #855 on: January 01, 2023, 07:12:23 PM »
I'm not really familiar with the wzo parsha, can someone please explain it to me? From what I understand a (large?) number of gedolim oppose it based on the historical opposition of many gedolim to joining/participating with zionists/zionism. However, from what I understand, many gedolim post war allowed participation/voting in the zionist/Israeli governerment. So Ma nishtana between voting in Israeli elections and wzo?

The issue isn't voting per se, it was that in order to vote you had to "join."

Many of those who opposed Zionism were of the opinion that voting in government elections was not an endorsement of zionism, it was a recognition that this is who has legal authority. Others disagreed and continue not to vote (or even accept Israeli citizenship).

It seems that even those who said to vote in Israeli elections continued to be opposed to joining Zionist organizations.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #856 on: January 01, 2023, 07:23:39 PM »
(or even accept Israeli citizenship).

To what extent is that an option for a person born there?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline yelped

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #857 on: January 01, 2023, 07:57:01 PM »
I'm not familiar with this kind of kiddush, but may I humbly suggest that kids have their own kiddush or at the very least their own tables? They can be responsible to set and clean up, as well as be responsible for the Torah that needs to be shared at the kiddush.

And this might be crazy talk, but girls can have their own kiddush too.
A good suggestion to correct the symptoms of the problem, but not the cause of the problem.

I have a problem with many Kiddushim in the first place, but this a manifestation of a different issue.

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #858 on: January 01, 2023, 08:25:34 PM »
This is a beautiful חפץ חיים my high school מנהל said over this week:





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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #859 on: January 01, 2023, 11:30:46 PM »
A good suggestion to correct the symptoms of the problem, but not the cause of the problem.

I have a problem with many Kiddushim in the first place, but this a manifestation of a different issue.

I don't think it addresses the symptoms at all. It creates a new phenomenon.

The root of the problem cannot be addressed by a shul policy.