How should schools and parents deal with tuition?

[aygart]

I don’t. It’s an assumption. Logically people don’t want to pay for products and services they are not receiving.

That is only if you look at the school as a fee for service and you child's chinuch as a product.

[zale]

That is only if you look at the school as a fee for service and you child's chinuch as a product.

School IS a service. It’s a service that is essential for both halachic and personal reasons, but it’s still a service, just as much as a sofer writing your tefilin is a service.

When you negotiate tuition every year, they make it abundantly clear how much of a service they are.

[Shmobaum]

Did he ask if he should pay or if he is obligated to pay? There is a big difference.

If you are happy with your school and you want them to stay solvent, if you feel that generally they have been fair with you, if you think they are doing what they can under the circumstances, or even if you hate them but fear some sort of retribution then you should pay even if you may halachically have grounds not to pay the full tuition obligation.

Although some of the school expenses are lower now fundraising revenue has most likely dried up to zero.

His question was “according to halacha am I obligated to pay tuition?”
He replied “ As of now Yes”

[AsherO]

His question was “according to halacha am I obligated to pay tuition?”
He replied “ As of now Yes”

That’s a qualified yes, I wonder what the qualifications are.

[knowitall]

That is only if you look at the school as a fee for service and you child's chinuch as a product.

Please explain alternate ways of viewing the schools role in your child’s chinuch.

[aygart]

Please explain alternate ways of viewing the schools role in your child’s chinuch.

I have repeated this countless times in this thread.
I do not view the school as a chinuch store. It is the parent's obligation to ensure that there is a financially viable place for their child's chinuch. If that sometimes means paying while there are no services rendered then so be it. Fundraising to keep the school open is not the administrator's responsibility. He is only hired to administer it. It is the parent's responsibility. That is why parents have an obligation to participate in fundraising events. It is not a for-profit store where the customers have no obligation to the store owner. The school is your shliach.

[ari3]

I received this letter from Torah Umesora in my email this morning about tuition. The gedolim are saying to pay from a totally different angle. Not because we signed a tuition contract but because it is our obligation to maintain schools as per תקנת רבי יהושע בן גמלא and in order for the schools to survive tuition needs to be paid.

They also write that schools should extend courtesy to those that are struggling due to the situation.

It is eyeopening to see דעת תורה's angle on this.

[yos9694]

Torah Umesorah just put out suggested guidelines. The long and short of it is, "heifiru torasecha". Sans "l'hashem". Even though tor nischt nemen yenem's, it doesn't apply in this case because "schools must continue to exist". The endless shpiels we got about emunah and bitachon were all baloney. That only applies when it comes to a businessman's financial tzaros, but not a yeshiva's tzaros.

I agree with schools must continue to exist, but only if they represent the torah values and stand as an example of emes vyashrus. Otherwise we can do without them.

The irony is that if the schools did admit that they couldn't rightfully take tuition money, I think most people who are still able to pay would donate and fundraise to save their mosad.

[moko]

Question for those who are complaining, why don't you just stop paying? Who's forcing you to keep paying?

[etech0]

Question for those who are complaining, why don't you just stop paying? Who's forcing you to keep paying?

Complaining is more fun!

[lubaby]

Question for those who are complaining, why don't you just stop paying? Who's forcing you to keep paying?

Possibly worried about not having a school for next year?

[moko]

Possibly worried about not having a school for next year?

probably time to pull your kids out of that school in such a case. Start a new school.

[aygart]

I received this letter from Torah Umesora in my email this morning about tuition. The gedolim are saying to pay from a totally different angle. Not because we signed a tuition contract but because it is our obligation to maintain schools as per תקנת רבי יהושע בן גמלא and in order for the schools to survive tuition needs to be paid.

They also write that schools should extend courtesy to those that are struggling due to the situation.

It is eyeopening to see דעת תורה's angle on this.

Wow. Just what i have been saying the entire time.

[Ergel]

Wow. Just what i have been saying the entire time.

It's pashut like that, keeping in mind that @yos9694 is correct (not that I agree with the way he says it) that the burden falls on the community, not the parents in the school. Though the argument could be made in NYC that there is no "community" and the parents in a particular school are the community.
That being said, I am continuing to pay my children's tuition - I believe strongly that we need the schools to survive and that the teachers should continue to be paid.

[aygart]

It's pashut like that, keeping in mind that @yos9694 is correct (not that I agree with the way he says it) that the burden falls on the community, not the parents in the school. Though the argument could be made in NYC that there is no "community" and the parents in a particular school are the community.
That being said, I am continuing to pay my children's tuition - I believe strongly that we need the school's to survive and that the teacher's should continue to be paid.

Unless you are referring to a post other than his most recent one, I am not sure where you are seeing him having said that.

And

That is great when there is a community school (a school of a chassidus would presumably be included), but what about a community which has numerous schools?

[aygart]

One thing I am seeing is that some here are very bitter at the school they entrust to be mechanech their children. I suggest that they try to find a more appropriate school. Don't think that this bitterness doesn't terribly affect your children. Even if they don't hear it (unlikely even if you make extreme efforts) they will sense it. How well do you think they will absorb what the rabbeim, who either way are not to blame, teach them after absorbing this attitude towards the school?

[zale]

I received this letter from Torah Umesora in my email this morning about tuition. The gedolim are saying to pay from a totally different angle. Not because we signed a tuition contract but because it is our obligation to maintain schools as per תקנת רבי יהושע בן גמלא and in order for the schools to survive tuition needs to be paid.

They also write that schools should extend courtesy to those that are struggling due to the situation.

It is eyeopening to see דעת תורה's angle on this.

How does this explain why full tuition should be paid?

If they pay just the teachers and nothing else, they should be able to issue a discount.

[yos9694]

It's pashut like that, keeping in mind that @yos9694 is correct (not that I agree with the way he says it) that the burden falls on the community, not the parents in the school. Though the argument could be made in NYC that there is no "community" and the parents in a particular school are the community.
That being said, I am continuing to pay my children's tuition - I believe strongly that we need the school's to survive and that the teacher's should continue to be paid.

Fair points, both that what they just published is a pashut svara and that I should have said my piece differently. My frustration here is with the approach only- that from day 1 there was no acknowledgement that anything should be different about tuition obligations from when school is running normally.

The thing is, making sure that all the teachers continue to get paid is very important to me personally and clearly also the right thing to be doing. But that doesn't mean that parents can continue to be billed for tuition though. Sadly, this generation does not possess a Nachshon ben Aminadav.

[Ergel]

Unless you are referring to a post other than his most recent one, I am not sure where you are seeing him having said that.

And

He deleted a post

[aygart]

How does this explain why full tuition should be paid?

If they pay just the teachers and nothing else, they should be able to issue a discount.

This is not necessarily the case. I do not have numbers, but there are definitely some important counterpoints to this. (not in any specific order)

1. Mortgages and many other fixed expenses continue to be due.
2. While during the original 2 weeks before pesach many schools used free teleschooling options, those options were not really viable and had many shortcomings which caused many schools to move to more complex and costly systems.
3. Many utility bills will have gone down but not disappear and some may be billed at 75% or more of the original cost for various reasons which I will not get into here. (This is my business expertise-just trust me on this one)
4. There have been equipment and printing costs which they would not have had otherwise
5. Many schools help support the school by having a simcha hall or the like which may have dried up. If now this major source of income is lost, at least they can cancel it out with some of their savings (if they have any)
6. Some items which you are assuming that they are saving may be subsidized by the government or other funding. An example is the lunch program. Many schools receive government funding to cover lunches. They do not save anything by not providing them-just the opposite. They may be losing money on the deal.
7. Other regular fundraising avenues may have also dried up. Many mosdos have their fundraising dinner during sefirah when the halls can give them a discount since they would not be making weddings anyhow. The inability to make these fundraisers can be a very big hit to their budget.
8. I am sure that there are many whose tuition payments have stopped cold turkey. Some due to the inability to pay due to the current financial situation and some because of the attitudes displayed in this thread.

I am sure there are more points in both directions, but your premise is definitely not simple.