Ask a Lubavitcher Anything

[ExGingi]

The argument the other way not making any sense?

רבי דניאל אומר, בארבע עשרה מדות התורה נדרשת....

יד. הסברא האחרת אינה נראית לי, ולכן אמציא סברא.

יהי רצון...שיבנה בית המקדש במהרה בימינו ותן חלקנו בתורתך

[koplonko]

Noch a mahl:
So again, why is it common minhag at Chabad shuls worldwide for bochurim to daven at the omud and get aliyas without a talis, but common minhag for chasanim at their ufruf to wear a talis?
You really want to tell me the answer to that question is "purely kovid hatzibur"? 

קשיא אויף א מעשה.
I'm telling you facts and you're asking me questions from other places. Do you own research and see if you can come up with a different story.
Chabad houses don't have an old gabai that insisted that they should wear a talis and got the Rov to back him. BTW same applies to bar mitzvah on (Shabbos and) Tom tov shacharis.
I'll end off with a question: have you ever heard of a ufruf by Mincha with a talis?

[Yehuda57]

The argument the other way not making any sense?

I've seen bochurim wear taleisim, I wore one myself. Fwiw, I've never heard the makif explanation. The question might be why it became so widespread not to wear one even when a majority of mispalelim are wearing one.

[Dan]

I've seen bochurim wear taleisim, I wore one myself.

Anywhere outside of your shul in JNB?
Where?

[ExGingi]

The question might be why it became so widespread not to wear one even when a majority of mispalelim are wearing one.

Easy:

2. I guess this is like many minhagim nowadays, which are established by practice which is based on ignorance.
3. טוט אלץ וואס איהר ווילט...

[ExGingi]

Anywhere outside of your shul in JNB?
Where?

Let me ask you a slightly different question:

Have you ever said (or seen) selichos in a Lubavitch minyan where a bochur was the שליח ציבור and did not wear a tallis?

[koplonko]

The question might be why it became so widespread not to wear one even when a majority of mispalelim are wearing one.

We can start with the first hayom yom

[Yehuda57]

Anywhere outside of your shul in JNB?
Where?

A) Wasn't my shul, as mentioned I didn't go to the Lubavitch shul, I grew up in shlichus.
B) In 770 bar bochurim sometimes wear, I've seen it in a couple Chabad houses even for a Baal koreh, not just aliyah, ועוד

[Yehuda57]

We can start with the first hayom yom

I'm not talking maariv or even davenning for the amud

[koplonko]

Let me ask you a slightly different question:

Have you ever said (or seen) selichos in a Lubavitch minyan where a bochur was the שליח ציבור and did not wear a tallis?

Yes. But that's because most people don't realize that selichos has a talis for a different reason than a regular tefilla.

[ExGingi]

B) In 770 bar bochurim sometimes wear, I've seen it in a couple Chabad houses even for a Baal koreh, not just aliyah, ועוד

In the last 20 years or so I believe there was a bar mitzva on Rosh Hashono or Yom Kippur in 770, and IIRC a Tallis was worn.

[koplonko]

I'm not talking maariv or even davenning for the amud

I understand. But this hayim Yom could be a start to the understanding that it chabad they are not so particular about kovid hatzibur.
There is a letter from the Rebbe regarding hagbah without a talis

[koplonko]

In the last 20 years or so I believe there was a bar mitzva on Rosh Hashono or Yom Kippur in 770, and IIRC a Tallis was worn.

And shavuos

[ExGingi]

Yes. But that's because most people don't realize that selichos has a talis for a different reason than a regular tefilla.

הוא הדבר אשר דברתי

2. I guess this is like many minhagim nowadays, which are established by practice which is based on ignorance.

[ExGingi]

And shavuos

Why would that be the case? On Rosh Hashono and YK there aren't that many minyanim for קריאת התורה. On Shavuos the opposite is true. Plenty of Minyanim. Why would an aliya be given to a Bar Mitzvah in the main minyan?

[koplonko]

Why would that be the case? On Rosh Hashono and YK there aren't that many minyanim for קריאת התורה. On Shavuos the opposite is true. Plenty of Minyanim. Why would an aliya be given to a Bar Mitzvah in the main minyan?

Did you give your kids their bar mitzvah aliyah in one of the plenty minyanim?

[zh cohen]

Noch a mahl:
So again, why is it common minhag at Chabad shuls worldwide for bochurim to daven at the omud and get aliyas without a talis, but common minhag for chasanim at their ufruf to wear a talis?

It makes perfect sense to me that the practice in Chabad shuls around the world is based on a misunderstanding of why things were done a certain way in 770.

[ExGingi]

Did you give your kids their bar mitzvah aliyah in one of the plenty minyanim?

My kids didn't have a Bar Mitzvah aliya on YT.

I don't recall seeing Bar Mitzvah aliyos on YT at the Rebbe's minyan prior to ג תמוז.

[ExGingi]

It makes perfect sense to me that the practice in Chabad shuls around the world is based on a misunderstanding of why things were done a certain way in 770.

I guess along with כבוד הציבור going out the window, so went שאל אביך ויגדך, זקניך ויאמרו לך.

[Dan]

Had a brief conversation with Rabbi Chaikin.

He said that:
-If it's a shul where the minhag is for B"M bochurim to wear a talis or for a bochur to wear a talis for getting an aliya or going to the amud, fine. Otherwise, we don't do that.

-Slichos talis, as mentioned above is not about kavod hatzibur.  At any rate, he would not have a bochur daven slichos as al pi chassidus a bochur shouldn't wear a talis. He said he'd have to look it up. B'shas hadchak where there only bochurim, he didn't think they would wear a talis.

-As I expected, he said the ufruf is an exception as that's an aliya to prepare you for married life and is connected with being married, so you wear a talis.