Chaim Walder dies

[YossieW]

I wasn't referring to those quotes (which, btw, when it comes to R'Gershon Eidelstein Shlita was horribly misquoted).

assuming you are correct that R' Gershon Eidelstein is being misquoted then those close to him should convey that and make sure that the proper message does get out because I have seen people using that as either justification to bash him or the flip side to blame those who have come forward

if those who are close don't attempt to get a clarification then as R" Tzvi Gluck put it  "We have set our community back light years, creating a tragic scenario where innocent victims will be afraid to speak out because the community will label them as rodfim and murderers, instead of placing the blame squarely where it belongs – on the shoulders of those who abuse children"

[S209]

assuming you are correct that R' Gershon Eidelstein is being misquoted then those close to him should convey that and make sure that the proper message does get out because I have seen people using that as either justification to bash him or the flip side to blame those who have come forward

if those who are close don't attempt to get a clarification then as R" Tzvi Gluck put it  "We have set our community back light years, creating a tragic scenario where innocent victims will be afraid to speak out because the community will label them as rodfim and murderers, instead of placing the blame squarely where it belongs – on the shoulders of those who abuse children"

I think the quote that went out was more to a point that (I think) @YitzyS made: while he may be a monster, and someone in a position of authority or his employer may need to take public action which while harmful to his psyche and reputation is a necessary part of dealing with such people, there is no reason nor gain in regular people peddling gossip to his detriment merely for their own enjoyment. It was a repudiation of simple gossip, not a defense of CW Ch”v. R’ Gershon himself publicly stated earlier that one should not read his books until the investigation is complete!

I don’t necessarily have a problem with that viewpoint, if indeed R’ Gershon said it (of course all we have to go on that he even said it is a random anonymously forwarded unsigned whatsapp message).

[WonderingYid]

Why can’t this be a teachable moment that we can appreciate great work but not the person just like we teach our kids not to idolize sports stars? This feels to me like a non-yiddish haskofah of cancel culture. Should we ban must read MLK literature because of his checkered morality or other great people that we know today had depraved morals? On a similar context, should Kof-k’s remove the hechsher on Ben-& Jerries and many others such cases.
While we have seen many therapists and rabonim ban his books, to the best of my knowledge we have yet to hear from mainstream Daas Torah on this topic. Hopefully they will issue guidance (after consulting with therapists) and I will follow suit. For now I told my kids, respect the work but the person has been accused of committing the worst crimes and  I would never allow you kids to be near him with a ten foot pole (similar to how I talk to them about Trump).  We may need to remove his books based on our robonin guidelines.
I will point out that Rabbi Russel, who is sadly an expert on this topic did make a compelling point regarding adding trauma to victims seeing it as supporting an abuser. I think that’s a question again to Daas Torah if it’s valid enough of a reason for me to not allow it in my private dwelling.

No comparison with Ben & Jerrys. Don't hold your breath.

[WonderingYid]

An interesting perspective:
Could it be that CW really did teshuva before he took his own life, but wrote his suicide letter the way he did, in order to protect his family from having to face what he did, and allow them to continue to live in denial?

My big question is: Did anyone know about this for all these years. If so, who?

[PlatinumGuy]

Mamesh כל המרחם על האכזרים סופו להתאכזר על הרחמנים

[WonderingYid]

Source?
Not doubting the story, just want to read about it.

https://vinnews.com/2021/12/30/unspeakable-tragedy-alleged-walder-victim-takes-her-own-life/

[Euclid]

https://rabbidunner.com/soul-searching/

[aygart]

https://rabbidunner.com/soul-searching/

He brings out a point I was wondering about. In what capacity did he have patients? Was he a social worker? Psychologist? Something else? An untrained "mentor"? He seems to say it was the last. Is that the case?

[Flatbush]

Interesting Prospective
https://nefesh.org/YitziHorowitz/vilifying-chaim-walder.html

[EliJelly]

https://rabbidunner.com/soul-searching/

He makes some very good points, and there is the concept of קבל את האמת ממי שאמרו, but from the few articles of his that I read it seemed that he's very scornful of the frummer community. No wonder he jumps on this bandwagon so quick. I'm not happy with the sympathy some have with CW, but I'm not interested in the mockings of folks like these either.

Additionally, I find it very ironic that in the short bio he has about himself, the larger part consists of this;

In 1987 Rabbi Dunner was introduced to the legendary Rabbi Shlomo Carlebach (1925-1994), an inspirational spiritual guru, and the father of modern Jewish religious music who was known as the “Singing Rabbi”. Rabbi Dunner developed a close friendship with Rabbi Carlebach, a relationship tragically ended by Rabbi Carlebach’s untimely death. Rabbi Carlebach’s final series of concerts took place in the UK in the days before he died, organized and promoted by Rabbi Dunner.

https://rabbidunner.com/about/

[JlmBoi]

My big question is: Did anyone know about this for all these years. If so, who?

Idk if people knew about his deeds with minors, the issues with married women were well known (not sure to what degree, people knew to say keep away from him).

[EliJelly]

Idk if people knew about his deeds with minors, the issues with married women were well known (not sure to what degree, people knew to say keep away from him).

And yet nobody managed to get the word out there for all schools and organization that he should NEVER be used as a therapist?? What a horrendous failure.
I can't think of this happening in any frum society that when there is well known shmutz on someone that he can keep a position with children.

[JlmBoi]

He makes some very good points, and there is the concept of קבל את האמת ממי שאמרו, but from the few articles of his that I read it seemed that he's very scornful of the frummer community. No wonder he jumps on this bandwagon so quick. I'm not happy with the sympathy some have with CW, but I'm not interested in the mockings of folks like these either.

Additionally, I find it very ironic that in the short bio he has about himself, the larger part consists of this;

https://rabbidunner.com/about/

I think לגבי this situation there is alot of קבל את האמת ממי שאמרו required. There is no doubt Haaretz is a frum hating left wing Arab loving progressive degenerate publication. Is that a reason to ignore what they wrote? There are too many people busy pointing out the faults and ulterior motives of everyone involved. Now is not the time for that. Now is the time to say yes, we have a massive massive problem, we are failing our kids, our own integrity, and our most basic purpose as yidden. Let's all acknowledge that out loud and think about what we can do about it. I feel bad for anyone who has to justify things like what R Gershon said. I don't know what I would do, but definitely a good think and reevaluation is in order.

[JlmBoi]

And yet nobody managed to get the word out there for all schools and organization that he should NEVER be used as a therapist?? What a horrendous failure.
I can't think of this happening in any frum society that when there is well known shmutz on someone that he can keep a position with children.

Happens all the time, especially when the establishment is behind someone. There was a certain very well known Rav in certain circles admitted to terrible things. A few years later he has many people attending his shiurim and he is steadily rebuilding. And this is in circles which are relatively rational.

[EliJelly]

Happens all the time, especially when the establishment is behind someone. There was a certain very well known Rav in certain circles admitted to terrible things. A few years later he has many people attending his shiurim and he is steadily rebuilding. And this is in circles which are relatively rational.

Happens all the time? I bet not. Talking of Berland? He's a Rebbe and mystic leader to his followers, such people tend to lose their logic.

[Yehuda57]

He brings out a point I was wondering about. In what capacity did he have patients? Was he a social worker? Psychologist? Something else? An untrained "mentor"? He seems to say it was the last. Is that the case?

https://twitter.com/ezalmanov/status/1308503517657784320

(Note the date, he is not responding to this case)

Idk if people knew about his deeds with minors, the issues with married women were well known (not sure to what degree, people knew to say keep away from him).

As PG said upthread, had the issue been Shabbos and not married women, would those who knew remained silent? What if it had been married men? I'd wager anything he'd have been blacklisted with extreme prejudice.

[Euclid]

Happens all the time? I bet not. Talking of Berland? He's a Rebbe and mystic leader to his followers, such people tend to lose their logic.

I think he's referring to a rabbi in England.

[JlmBoi]

I think he's referring to a rabbi in England.

Neither. A Rabbi in the dati leumi community in Israel.
I wish it didnt happen all the time. What should I do that I know about multiple such stories. With these things it's likely that as much as we know about there much more we didn't and probably won't hear about, unless the "leadership" wakes up or we manage to wake them up.
https://www.facebook.com/dov.weinroth/posts/1567877373588972
Dovi Weinrot was a friend of CW, was maspid him by the levaya, decried the lashon hara, and has now made a public u turn. If only we had some of our leader admit they can be wrong (like the beautiful letter from the Steipler up thread).

[AsherO]

Interesting Prospective
https://nefesh.org/YitziHorowitz/vilifying-chaim-walder.html

Interesting, but a very dark road to go down, and now isn't necessarily the time for that discussion.

[momo]

Does anyone have the letter R Kamenetsky put out?