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I created an account to say this

I am a survivor of abuse

I tried to type up a longer, more detailed post but it got too hard. The bottom line is the following

There's no such thing as universal feelings, reactions, desires, needs that all victims share. Each one is an individual who suffered alone and carries the unique scars that stay with them and each one will react to future situations in life in their own way.

Therefore, there is no single response to abuse that will leave all victims feeling safe, secure, validated, supported, closure and everything else all the well meaning people here want to give them.

However, I think there is a single response that would leave all victims feeling further pain and trauma and that is "It can't be."

Rabbi Shimon Russell - How to Safeguard and Protect our Children

https://youtu.be/fefqSvXf0JI


« Last edited by Yehuda57 on January 12, 2022, 05:44:00 PM »

Author Topic: Chaim Walder dies  (Read 132535 times)

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #620 on: December 31, 2021, 03:22:34 PM »


Either they haven't updated their letterhead or the letter is a fake. Rabbi Ehrenreich is not alive anymore.

Also, every newsletter goes through the teacher, principal, marginally the hanhala before it's published. Nothing gets published without "realizing".

Source: my wife, who used to teach there and work on the newsletter.
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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #621 on: December 31, 2021, 03:23:56 PM »
Doesn't say that...Clearly says they have heard it...
This letter was disseminated as a *reaction* to their students finding out about it. It wasn't a proactive action to something which was inevitable.

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #622 on: December 31, 2021, 03:24:07 PM »
Either they haven't updated their letterhead or the letter is a fake. Rabbi Ehrenreich is not alive anymore.

Also, every newsletter goes through the teacher, principal, marginally the hanhala before it's published. Nothing gets published without "realizing".

Source: my wife, who used to teach there and work on the newsletter.
Not juicy enough to be fake.  :)

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #623 on: December 31, 2021, 03:24:32 PM »
This letter was disseminated as a *reaction* to their students finding out about it. It wasn't a proactive action to something which was inevitable.
Like many things...

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #624 on: December 31, 2021, 03:42:56 PM »
The Short Vort-Rabbi Ron Yitzchok Eisenman
Good Morning!
Today is Friday the 27th of Teves 5782 and December 3 :'(1, 2021

cw*
*yemach shemo-may his name be obliterated

In Memory of Shifra Yocheved Horowitz Zecher Tzadekes L'Brocha
Shifra was a victim of the vicious, pernicious, and malicious monster whose name I shall not utter.
Ms. Horowitz committed suicide this week as a result of the crippling abuse she suffered at the hands of cw.
Where were the throngs at her levaya?
I will no longer give this evil, demonic maniac the "honor" of upper-case letters; rather, he is lower-cased to cw.

And In Honor of The True Heroes- The BRAVE VICTIMS who came forward and as Shimshon did years before them, they showed gevura in the face of the multitudes who were against them.
Ultimately, they brought down the predator forever and prevented more boys, girls, women (and who knows who else) from being abused, humiliated, and destroyed.
We honor these victims of terror.
They are our heroes
We thank Hashem that cw can no longer continue his reign of terror against our people.
May the name of the evil rot

In this article, I will convey universally accepted Torah principles and present a true Torah approach to the disastrous debacle of cw.

Part One- What's in a name?
Some of you may be surprised and shocked by my usage of the term: yimach shemo. Let me explain.
Although usually the phrase is used concerning known enemies of the Jew, there is precedence to use it here.
We follow in the ways of the great giants who lived before us and who instructed us in proper Torah conduct.
If we would not have proof from the Chofetz Chaim himself, the man who personified proper speech, and if we would not have Rav Shach himself authenticating this anecdote, we would not be permitted to add such an epithet to a Jew.
We read in the wonderful sefer "Rav Shach on Chumash" (author: Rabbi Asher Bergman, son-in-law of Rav Shach (2004) page 248. ArtScroll / Mesorah. ISBN 9781578193615):
 "Rav Shach used to point out that the revered Chofetz Chaim took great care never to speak ill of a Jew, whomever he might be. There was one exception— the leader of the Maskilim in Vilna, Adam HaKohen, to whose name the Chofetz Chaim would add Yemach Shemo (may his name be erased). And why? Because when the Chofetz Chaim studied in Vilna in his youth, he became well known as a very bright young man who held great promise as a future Torah giant. Adam HaKohen himself came to him and tried to convince him to abandon his studies."
 
If the Chofetz Chaim was insistent on referring to a man who "just" attempted to convince him to abandon his studies with the epithet yemach shemo, notwithstanding this person was unsuccessful; then certainly, the Chofetz Chaim would insist on using the phrase yemach shemo when referring to a person who was successful in causing many Jews to abandon and question their Jewish faith.
Therefore, the term yemach shemo is unfortunately appropriate here.

The evil of cw will live in infamy as long as the legacy of his heinous actions affects his victims
There are heroes, and there are villains.
The villains are well known: cw and anyone who covered for him.
 Who are the heroes?
The heroes are the victims who had the almost insurmountable challenge of coming forward and testifying, thereby eradicating forever the festering venomous virus known as cw.
The freakish pedophilic foe would have continued in his destructive ways, leaving a multitude of emotionally crippled Jews in his wake if not for the heroic bravery of the victims.
These victims stood straight and tall before the Tzaddikim Rav Silman and Rav Eliyahu despite their emotional pain.
They painfully retold the holocaustic horror they endured at the hands of this psychopath.
They are the ones we honor.
They are our role models.
They are the ones who need our support and our validation.

Another reason to utilize this epithet to describe cw is to emphasize the truth and dispel the claims of those attempting to distort the truth.
The repulsive usage of the epithet -Zecher Tzadik L'Vrocha- "the remembrance of the righteous should be for a blessing"- shockingly and appallingly appended to cw by (formerly respected) Jewish newspapers, is a corruption of the truth in the highest degree.
Indeed, it smacks of an Orwellian mindset by the newspaper's writers.
The sages have taught us, "Believe that there is wisdom among the nations of the world."
Here is an example of such wisdom which describes to a tee the mindset of such newspaper writers:
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past."
(1984; George Orwell)
Therefore, according to this way of thinking- the future is guaranteed by spinning a present false narrative.
If someone can be classified as a Tzaddik today, you have ensured his inclusion into the pantheon of acceptable transmitters of authentic Judaism forever.
In this Orwellian narrative, all members of The Party are good.
There are no molesters among the righteous.
There is nothing to fix, for nothing is broken.
Such an approach is not only untruthful; it is an insult of the highest degree to the victims of cw and facilitates and indeed encourages the cws' of the world to keep molesting, safe in the knowledge that they will never be taken to task.
Shockingly, they will be elevated to the status of Tzaddik.
Such thinking is not only Orwellian; it is heresy.
However, in the Orwellian world in which some choose to live, "The heresy of heresies is common sense." (1984; George Orwell)
Therefore, yimach shemo is needed, not just because of its applicability, but also and just as importantly as a counter-weight to the un-truths being disseminated.

Part Two
Why go public?
Some people have asked me why everything had to go so public?
Once again, we look for guidance from the true Torah leaders of past generations.
Let us turn to Rav Shlomo Kluger's and his granddaughter Sasha Mindel Hertzberg née Kluger.
Rav Shlomo Kluger (1785-1869) was a world-renowned Talmid Chochom.
Rav Kluger was famous for being the Rav and Dayan in the Galician town of Brody in Poland for over 50 years.
Rav Shlomo Kluger is one of the great Rabbinic stars in the heavenly firmament of the Torah world.
The Beis HaLevi- Rav Yosef Dov HaLevi Soloveitchik learned with Rav Shlomo Kluger as a young man.
He authored over 160 works. Some of which have yet to be published.
In 1854 he published a work titled "Nidrei Zerizin."
 The Sefer contains novella on the tractate Nedarim.
What is unique about this sefer is to whom it is dedicated.
Rav Brody dedicated the work to his granddaughter, Sasha Mindel.
On the title page of the book, Rav Kluger writes, "I am publishing this word as a memorial and for the sake of the soul of my dear and wise granddaughter, Sasha Mindel, who died at an early age. She was the daughter of my son Rav Chaim Yehuda, and she passed away on Shabbos Kodesh Parshas Shimini on the 24th day of Nissan in the year 1854."
What was so special about his granddaughter that he dedicated the sefer to her?
The Tragedy of Sasha Mindel
The Sefer contains an introduction explaining why Rav Kluger dedicates the Sefer to his granddaughter Sasha Mindel.
Rav Shlomo Kluger explains that he was very close to his granddaughter, Sasha Mindel, who grew up in his house.
He wrote how he was personally involved in her shidduch and was convinced she was marrying into a beautiful Torah family after making the proper inquiries from trusted friends.
Alas, it was not to be.
Rav Brody records unabashedly and graphically the evilness of the family into which Sasha Mindel found herself.
He writes explicitly how he was lied to concerning the family's respectability and refers to Sasha Mindel's husband and family as "Anoshim Ra-im Me'od" – "very evil people."
He continues to tearfully and painfully describe what happened just a few weeks after Sasha Mindel's wedding.
 "After her husband (Yakov Hertzberg) and his family (her father-in-law- Yechiel Itzik Hertzberg) realized that my grandaughter is not choosing their ways of life nor acting as they act.
 They began to abuse her until, after just a quarter of a year of marriage, she developed lung disease."
Rav Brody writes that no one told him about his granddaughter's abusive relationship, and if someone random had not informed him of the dire circumstances, he never would have known.
Once he found the truth, he spared no expense in extracting his granddaughter from this abusive household and brought her to live with him. Unfortunately, she was already too sick and died shortly after on the 24th day of Nissan in 1854.
After begging Hashem to exact divine judgment against these evildoers, he shockingly states, "Hashem should avenge my vengeance quickly."
To create a memorial to her soul, he decided to publish a Sefer in her memory.
He stipulates that if this Sefer ever merits future editions, this introduction never be excised from the text as "this is my primary intent (in writing this work) that it should be a memorial to her soul…."
That is the tragic story of Sasha Mindel bas Rav Chaim Yehuda.
She was a woman who suffered in silence from spousal abuse.
Rav Kluger was a Gadol B'Yisorel.
He knew the halachos of Loshon Hora better than us. Yet, he felt compelled to publicize his grandaughter's tragic plight and explicitly write the names of her husband and father-in-law.
We can only imagine the painful situation his granddaughter suffered through in silence.       
Rav Kluger writes that none of this would have occurred if any of the people he inquired of and who knew the truth about the family (as he claims they did) had been open and honest with him.
Rav Kluger explains that his friends who repressed their knowledge of the abusive behavior of the family led to his granddaughter's death.
He writes, "May Hashem pay back these evil people and all else involved. They knew about this abusive, dysfunctional home, and they hid from me this information! May Hashem pay them back. "Hashem, be not be silent. Judge my judgment, do not be silent to my tears, stand up Hashem, and fight my battle. As the Torah says, "The murderer shall surely die".
As the Chofetz Chaim teaches us, Rav Shlomo Kluger reminded us that silence is the single greatest facilitator of continued abuse.
We cannot be silent when lives are at stake.
We do not have the luxury of changing history and corrupting the narrative.
Jewish lives are hanging in the balance.
Imagine how many people could have been saved if the rumors circulating about cw years ago had been disseminated to the public?
Imagine how much suffering could have been avoided?
Perhaps cw could even have gotten help?
Alas, it was not to be.
No one spoke out, and if they did, they were silenced.
Those who repressed the information and refused to tell others have blood on their hands.
Therefore we salute the true heroes of this horrific incident, the victims who dared to come forth.
And we censor those who pay tribute to the devil by attempting to create a delusional new reality where evil is good and good is evil.
I trembled as I read the account of the pained grandfather, the great Rav Shlomo Kluger, as he describes his granddaughter's suffering and ultimate death.
I can feel the loneliness of Sasha Mindel being trapped in an abusive marriage and the pain of her grandfather as he heard about her suffering.
How many women, children, and, yes, sometimes, men feel trapped in abusive situations?
A man of the stature of Rav Shlomo Kluger chose every word he wrote carefully and with precision.
Therefore, we dare never be silent when credible, continual, and multiple allegations of abuse are leveled against someone, irrespective of that person's position in public life.

Three-What to do?
1.      Teach your children never to let anyone touch them, period.
2.      Tell them to tell you everything and anything that went on in school. Please make sure you tell them repeatedly that you will NEVER be angry with them for informing you of what happened.
3.      Find out the safeguards the school has regarding children.
4.      Therapists can never have free reign with your children. The best system would be a two-way mirror as the child feels comfortable yet; the therapist is monitored.
5.      If two-way mirrors are not feasible, doors must be somewhat ajar, and given the reality of our world, someone must have access to enter unannounced. This person can be a supervisor or another therapist.
6.      Never let your child go in the car with anyone you have even the slightest suspicions.
7.      Constantly be open with your child and watch for any changes in their mood or behavior.
8.      Report all credible allegations to the appropriate law enforcement agency
9.      Make sure your child feels unconditionally loved and secure in your house.
10.  If you don't feel right about someone, you don't tell the world based on a "feeling"; however, you have the right the tell your child not to go to that house.


These are just basic and incomplete suggestions. They are a start.
However, only if molesters know they will be outed and there will be consequences can we prevent further horrific Chillul Hashem and prevent innocent people from being victimized.
We close with the unequivocal statement that I stand proudly with the victims and just as proudly distance myself from the perpetrators.
As previously mentioned, all of cw's writings must be trashed immediately. However, public book burnings should not be done. They are counter-productive and present us as vengeful, and it reminds us of times in Jewish history when our books were burned. This is not a time for fun, it is a time to cry.
By doing so, you state unequivocally and categorically that you support the victims.
May Hashem dry up the tears of all those who suffered and continue to suffer.
With hope for a better tomorrow,

"If Not Now, Then When?"- Hillel
Ron Yitzchok Eisenman
Rabbi
Congregation Ahavas Israel
Passaic, NJ

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #625 on: January 01, 2022, 03:54:05 PM »
https://www.haaretz.co.il/amp/news/law/.premium-1.10505197

Very accurate from what I can tell. Google headline to bypass paywall.
Quoting this Haaretz writer on this topic, is like quoting CNN on some Trump gossip?
He's anti-chareidi and misquoted and belittled R' Gershon in that very article.

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #626 on: January 01, 2022, 05:48:38 PM »
The Short Vort-Rabbi Ron Yitzchok Eisenman


It became so cool to write the most hateful things possible about CW. It's almost a competition. Of course, it's all in the name of the G-D....

Make no mistake, there must be more awareness on this topic. And children must be properly and carefully educated about dangers before it's too late for them to be educated. (BH I believe most parents do educate their children about this. Perhaps schools feel it's a sensitive topic to discuss in a public setting?) And this story brought the spotlight to it.

But please go ahead and call everyone a villain if they dared to doubt the severity, authenticity or accuracy of the allegations against a particular person considering the blurred evidence. That doesn't mean they aren't trusting or validating victims. Maybe they're just not excited to destroy a family without certainty of this particular person being guilty? They aren't covering up for abusers. They all agree that abusers are terrible people and sick, and no mercy should be given to them at the risk or expense of victims.
And of course Ms Horowitz is זצל now, because we know practically NOTHING about her life, other than claims by (an anonymous?) therapist that she was a victim of CW. We know nothing from before or after, but just that she committed a holy suicide. Again, she may actually be deservant of the title זצל. I don't know anything about her. But it's pretty bold to give people titles of ימ"ש and זצ"ל based on your perception of a story.
Regarding R Shlomo Kluger, the same thing applies again. CMIIW, no one was arguing that it's Lashon Hara to ridicule an abuser. They were only cautious about believing such things on someone who until 2 months ago had a חזקת כשרות like every other Jew. R' Shlomo Kluger may have known the facts beyond any doubt.

I'll just end with a famous vort (I don't remember from which tzaddik).
As Avraham was about to sacrifice his son, a Malach told him to stop. If Hashem commanded him to sacrifice his son, how was he able to listen to the Malach? And the tzaddik explains that To slaughter another Jew, you need to hear it from G-D himself. But to save another Jew, hearing from an angel is enough...
« Last Edit: January 01, 2022, 06:25:09 PM by Something Fishy »

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #627 on: January 01, 2022, 05:58:44 PM »
It became so cool to write the most hateful things possible about CW. It's almost a competition. Of course, it's all in the name of the G-D....

Make no mistake, there must be more awareness on this topic. And children must be properly and carefully educated about dangers before it's too late for them to be educated. (BH I believe most parents do educate their children about this. Perhaps schools feel it's a sensitive topic to discuss in a public setting?) And this story brought the spotlight to it.

But please go ahead and call everyone a villain if they dared to doubt the severity, authenticity or accuracy of the allegations against a particular person considering the blurred evidence. That doesn't mean they aren't trusting or validating victims. Maybe they're just not excited to destroy a family without certainty of this particular person being guilty? They aren't covering up for abusers. They all agree that abusers are terrible people and sick, and no mercy should be given to them at the risk or expense of victims.
And of course Ms Horowitz is זצל now, because we know practically NOTHING about her life, other than claims by (an anonymous?) therapist that she was a victim of CW. We know nothing from before or after, but just that she committed a holy suicide. Again, she may actually be deservant of the title זצל. I don't know anything about her. But it's pretty bold to give people titles of ימ"ש and זצ"ל based on your perception of a story.
Regarding R Shlomo Kluger, the same thing applies again. CMIIW, most arguments I saw until now weren't saying that it's Lashon Hara to ridicule an abuser. They were just cautious about believing such things on someone who until 2 months ago had a חזקת כשרות like every other Jew. R' Shlomo Kluger may have known the facts beyond any doubt.

I'll just end with a famous vort (I don't remember from which tzaddik).
As Avraham was about to sacrifice his son, a Malach told him to stop. If Hashem commanded him to sacrifice his son, how was he able to listen to the Malach? And the tzaddik explains that To slaughter another Jew, you need to hear it from G-D himself. But to save another Jew, hearing from an angel is enough...

R' Yitzchak Berkovits' address to mental health professionals

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lQjyvHzd7ynjDXEFl-iEmiJo2I71Nk1b/view?usp=sharing
Listen to the whole thing so it shouldn't be taken out of context.
Minute 18:20 - It shouldn't be discussed for other reasons but it is not Loshon Hora

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #628 on: January 01, 2022, 06:42:55 PM »
considering the blurred evidence.
You need to step back, examine the evidence, and realize when it’s time to call a spade a spade. Stop trying to defend the indefensible.

Please define what you would consider “clear” evidence and better than testimony from two dozen people, piskei Din, photos, audio and videos.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #629 on: January 01, 2022, 06:46:15 PM »
Listen to the whole thing so it shouldn't be taken out of context.
Minute 18:20 - It shouldn't be discussed for other reasons but it is not Loshon Hora
Wow! I just watched it now. He gives true clarity and perspective (speed feature came in handy for me...)

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #630 on: January 01, 2022, 07:22:33 PM »

I'll just end with a famous vort (I don't remember from which tzaddik).
As Avraham was about to sacrifice his son, a Malach told him to stop. If Hashem commanded him to sacrifice his son, how was he able to listen to the Malach? And the tzaddik explains that To slaughter another Jew, you need to hear it from G-D himself. But to save another Jew, hearing from an angel is enough...

Keep in mind that saving victims is also - in a far more literal way - saving another jew.

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #631 on: January 01, 2022, 07:33:42 PM »
Keep in mind that saving victims is also - in a far more literal way - saving another jew.
Agree 100%

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #632 on: January 01, 2022, 07:45:12 PM »

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #633 on: January 01, 2022, 08:10:18 PM »
One thing that comes out with these cases is how difficult it is to see things clearly when there are accusations against someone who is respected in the community. It then often becomes a victim who is not confident with her/himself and is already somewhat different from their peers against someone who is a known and respected adult who is going to fight vigorously to defend themselves. It then becomes very difficult to see the person's potential guilt. How can we avoid this issue?

The only way I can think of is to have clear guidelines and prcoesses delineated when there are no cases on the table. If there is a clear methodology already set up to follow then let the chips fall where they may.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #634 on: January 01, 2022, 08:17:42 PM »
One thing that comes out with these cases is how difficult it is to see things clearly when there are accusations against someone who is respected in the community. It then often becomes a victim who is not confident with her/himself and is already somewhat different from their peers against someone who is a known and respected adult who is going to fight vigorously to defend themselves. It then becomes very difficult to see the person's potential guilt. How can we avoid this issue?

The only way I can think of is to have clear guidelines and prcoesses delineated when there are no cases on the table. If there is a clear methodology already set up to follow then let the chips fall where they may.
Every community needs to have a Beis din set up specifically for this with the full backing of the community. All sides need to follow the exact guidelines put forth by this beis din or suffer the consequences. Simple as that.

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #635 on: January 01, 2022, 08:18:36 PM »
Every community needs to have a Beis din set up specifically for this with the full backing of the community. All sides need to follow the exact guidelines put forth by this beis din or suffer the consequences. Simple as that.

Maybe, but it would first need to get reported to the beis din
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #636 on: January 01, 2022, 08:20:51 PM »
It became so cool to write the most hateful things possible about CW. It's almost a competition. Of course, it's all in the name of the G-D....



I'll just keep beating this drum because it is important. The priority is our children, the victims and the potential victims. Look at every statement that is in any way "pro CW", or is decrying the halbanas panim or lashon hara. None offer words of compassion, comfort, or empathy to victims. Inasmuch as they speak about the right and need for them to come forward, the focus is on how it's done, and ensuring it's done in a way that is secretive and protects the community image rather than in a compassionate statement that empathizes and also makes room for due process.

Offline yandmk

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #637 on: January 01, 2022, 08:22:27 PM »
Every community needs to have a Beis din set up specifically for this with the full backing of the community. All sides need to follow the exact guidelines put forth by this beis din or suffer the consequences. Simple as that.
As Rabbi Berkovits says in the video mentioned above, there are already plenty of Batei Din who are professionally experienced in these matters.

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #638 on: January 01, 2022, 08:22:57 PM »
The Short Vort-Rabbi Ron Yitzchok Eisenman
Good Morning!
Today is Friday the 27th of Teves 5782 and December 3 :'(1, 2021

cw*
*yemach shemo-may his name be obliterated


Oh please, can we please stay level headed on this topic? No zatzals and no yemach shemos??
He left behind a frum G-d fearing family, right, he succumbed to his terrible yetzer hora and destroyed numerous lives in his selfishness. But is yemach shemo really the appropriate term here?

Offline JMHO

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Re: Chaim Walder dies
« Reply #639 on: January 01, 2022, 08:31:00 PM »
It became so cool to write the most hateful things possible about CW. It's almost a competition. Of course, it's all in the name of the G-D
Yup.
Sad.