Topic Wiki

The wiki is divided into groups for "fact" and "opinion." Please feel free to add whichever facts you know and opinions you have. Please try to avoid cluttering the wiki with unnecessary information such as outside links.

Please do not delete anything from this wiki.  If you disagree with an opinion, feel free to post your own. If you disagree with a fact--well, that's your opinion, and feel free to post it under opinions!

Facts
The flu vaccine causes more deaths per year than chicken pox.
The direct injection of RSV immunoglobulin, commonly known as the "RSV vaccine" would prevent 16x more deaths than the flu vaccine does, but is too expensive.
There is a vaccine for the plague, and that is why it is no longer an epidemic.
Ebola is caused by vaccines.
There is a vaccine for autism, but it causes mumps.


Opinions
Vaccines do not contain thimerosal, a known toxin.
If you snuck up on your neighbor's kid and cut open his skull, you would be arrested.  But when brain surgeons do it, and charge hundreds of thousands of dollars, it considered "medicine."
99% of vaccines do not cause autism (HT JJ1000).
Every pedi has seen healthy kids become sick physically & mentally hours after a vax (HT Baryochai)
Vaccines cause cancer, infertility, astma, adhd etc (HT Baryochai)

Poll

Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?

Yes (Shot)
115 (37.5%)
Yes (Nasal Spray)
5 (1.6%)
No
187 (60.9%)

Total Members Voted: 305

Author Topic: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread  (Read 307150 times)

Offline YankyDoodle

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 799
  • Total likes: 43
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #760 on: April 10, 2014, 10:20:06 AM »
Yes, it was sarcastic. What does Lipitor playing with numbers IN A COMMERCIAL have anything to do with this?
+1
Why the blind love for the naturalists? They stand to make a heck of a lot more money on this fear of medicine then doctors have in protecting vaccines... In fact doctors would make way more $$ if people became sick with vaccine-preventable diseases!

Offline Menachem613

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 1060
  • Total likes: 51
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #761 on: April 10, 2014, 10:21:46 AM »
One pediatrician I spoke to told me he loses money on one of the vaccines (I forget which ).

Offline Achas Veachas

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4224
  • Total likes: 82
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
    • Torah && Tech
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #762 on: April 10, 2014, 10:22:38 AM »
Everything about how you are using them is BS. the overwhelming majority of doctors recommended 7-UP as a diet supplement? Did they also do hundreds of studies to prove that cigarettes were safe? Every point you made was deceitful (if not by you then by the website that you copied it from) and incorrect. The only accurate point is that medicine and science is always a work in progress. It has always found a way to correct itself when errors were found. Vaccines have been tested for a long time and they have consistently proven to be an effective method that has saved millions of lives with limited risk. If this were ever proven to be otherwise, medicine would evolve like it always does.
So why trust the medical establishment which, by it's own admission, is always evolving, rather than trust the alternative establishment that got it right from the start? ::)

Offline YankyDoodle

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 799
  • Total likes: 43
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #763 on: April 10, 2014, 10:23:38 AM »
So why trust the medical establishment which, by it's own admission, is always evolving, rather than trust the alternative establishment that got it right from the start? ::)
Lol!

Online Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 2745
  • Total likes: 6443
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #764 on: April 10, 2014, 10:28:43 AM »
So why trust the medical establishment which, by it's own admission, is always evolving, rather than trust the alternative establishment that got it right from the start? ::)

Plus, we don't believe in evolution.
Quote from: ExGingi
Yehuda57 needs to spew a certain amount of sarcasm in order to survive through the day.

Offline gavhaller

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 749
  • Total likes: 2
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: Flushing, New York
  • Programs: Chase Visa Supreme, Avis Cadillac, Hyatt Vacation Club Owner, Disney Annual-Pass Holder, BA Avios Executive Corporate Shareholder VIP, Citi Platinum Status, Owner Of DFS - Discover Financial Services
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #765 on: April 10, 2014, 10:34:11 AM »
Yes, it was sarcastic. What does Lipitor playing with numbers IN A COMMERCIAL have anything to do with this?

Its just the idea that everything isnt as it seems. False advertisement does happen everyday.
Listen if someone told me that acupuncture could cure cancer, I wouldn't run to it. I'd be skeptical. But in my best interest I would also do some basic research.

Offline Chaikel

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 6787
  • Total likes: 86
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 20
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: LH SEN, SPG Plat, Hyatt Plat, Rav Kav Platinum
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #766 on: April 10, 2014, 10:34:24 AM »
The internet's power of information dissemination as a great equalizer is not limited to overthrowing Muslim dictators.
Are you not aware of the fact that every medical database is available on the internet?
No one is suggesting to base your health decisions off what you find online.
But what you find online can empower you to ask tough questions from your health professional.

And your comment about natural selection is callous and completely uncalled for.

Doing research in medical journals that happen to be online couldn't be any further than doing research on Google. That's like saying because every sefer is online, you can just google psak halacha. Anyone with a qualified opinion will publish it in an established medical journal. Ergo, 99.9% of anything on the internet that isn't in a medical journal is from people who would be barely qualified to apply a band-aid

And the natural selection comment is just fact. Natural selection has taken a huge hit in this decade thanks to modern medicine. But if you refuse it, then you're much more suseptible to natural selection
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 10:50:47 AM by Chaikel »
Create professional looking itineraries.
Check out eliteitinerary.com

Offline Chaikel

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 6787
  • Total likes: 86
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 20
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: LH SEN, SPG Plat, Hyatt Plat, Rav Kav Platinum
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #767 on: April 10, 2014, 10:36:47 AM »
Its just the idea that everything isnt as it seems. False advertisement does happen everyday.
Listen if someone told me that acupuncture could cure cancer, I wouldn't run to it. I'd be skeptical. But in my best interest I would also do some basic research...
By consulting a medical professional. According to most Google research it will, and has cured virtually every cancer case
Create professional looking itineraries.
Check out eliteitinerary.com

Offline YankyDoodle

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 799
  • Total likes: 43
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #768 on: April 10, 2014, 10:40:46 AM »
Its just the idea that everything isnt as it seems. False advertisement does happen everyday.
Listen if someone told me that acupuncture could cure cancer, I wouldn't run to it. I'd be skeptical. But in my best interest I would also do some basic research.
Oh come on man. What does false advertising have to do with the hundreds of studies done on vaccines? And guess what, even that one ad from lipitor was discovered and they were dealt severely for it. Don't you think that with all the scrutiny on vaccines someone would be able to uncover something if there was this grand conspiracy happening in the name of $$? And your comment about orthopedic surgeons before is stupid, even if they would cut off a healthy person's foot for money (which the majority would never do) there is something called oversight that protects people. Vaccines have oversight also, lots of it.

I don't disagree with you that you should be smart, but like you said look at the food products we put into our body daily. Look at the electronics all around us. These have practically zero oversight, maybe it's time to look at them as a possible source of autism and other ills rather than the already heavily scrutinized vaccines.

Offline YankyDoodle

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 799
  • Total likes: 43
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #769 on: April 10, 2014, 10:43:35 AM »
One of the major problems with alternative medicines is that they rarely have to stand up to defend themselves. And if they ever do have to - and it's discovered that they are phony - they disappear and pop up again in a new form. It's very easy to scrutinize medicine and that's a good thing and it helps it change for the better. Show me alternative therapies that can stand up to that level of scrutiny. It's a damn good system, but they're always happy to try to make it better.

Offline gavhaller

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 749
  • Total likes: 2
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: Flushing, New York
  • Programs: Chase Visa Supreme, Avis Cadillac, Hyatt Vacation Club Owner, Disney Annual-Pass Holder, BA Avios Executive Corporate Shareholder VIP, Citi Platinum Status, Owner Of DFS - Discover Financial Services
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #770 on: April 10, 2014, 10:47:06 AM »
Oh come on man. What does false advertising have to do with the hundreds of studies done on vaccines? And guess what, even that one ad from lipitor was discovered and they were dealt severely for it. Don't you think that with all the scrutiny on vaccines someone would be able to uncover something if there was this grand conspiracy happening in the name of $$? And your comment about orthopedic surgeons before is stupid, even if they would cut off a healthy person's foot for money (which the majority would never do) there is something called oversight that protects people. Vaccines have oversight also, lots of it.

I don't disagree with you that you should be smart, but like you said look at the food products we put into our body daily. Look at the electronics all around us. These have practically zero oversight, maybe it's time to look at them as a possible source of autism and other ills rather than the already heavily scrutinized vaccines.
I don't even feel that this conversation is about vaccines anymore. The idea is not to blame vaccines. The idea is just tk look into it. Like I said, I have all my vaccines and probably will give it to my children as well.
Its not even about conspiracy theories. About people making money while we suffer
I'm not trying to imply any of that. But I have noticed some weird things happen especially that advertisement (which I was right about).
From that perspective, it makes sense to look into something. Not for neurotic paranoid reasons. Just for common sense and for practical knowledge

Offline gavhaller

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 749
  • Total likes: 2
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: Flushing, New York
  • Programs: Chase Visa Supreme, Avis Cadillac, Hyatt Vacation Club Owner, Disney Annual-Pass Holder, BA Avios Executive Corporate Shareholder VIP, Citi Platinum Status, Owner Of DFS - Discover Financial Services
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #771 on: April 10, 2014, 10:49:20 AM »
And there are plenty of surgeons who opt for surgery. I had a cyst cut out of my hand by a surgeon in NYC. He advised me to get it cut out. I went for a follow to a different doctor after the surgery- he said he would never have cut that out.he would have punctured it with a needle and drained the fluid. The body does not need to undergo trauma for a cyst.

So no, I don't feel that my comment was inappropriate. Especially if I was subjected to that kind of treatment before.

Mind you, he made 8,000

Offline YankyDoodle

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 799
  • Total likes: 43
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #772 on: April 10, 2014, 10:55:07 AM »
I don't even feel that this conversation is about vaccines anymore. The idea is not to blame vaccines. The idea is just tk look into it. Like I said, I have all my vaccines and probably will give it to my children as well.
Its not even about conspiracy theories. About people making money while we suffer
I'm not trying to imply any of that. But I have noticed some weird things happen especially that advertisement (which I was right about).
From that perspective, it makes sense to look into something. Not for neurotic paranoid reasons. Just for common sense and for practical knowledge
I assume you have not read most of this thread. If you had, you would see that I agree with you completely that it's important to use your head and think things through. However I approach it from a completely different perspective. I am going to trust the doctors and researchers until such time that there is decent evidence showing a problem. I have not seen anything remotely resembling that yet.

You said you will give it to your children because the schools make you. You consistently indicated that there is cause for concern about conspiracies (lipitor and the orthopedic comment amongst others) on a thread about vaccines, it sure seems like you are implying that we should not trust what research has determined about vaccines. If I misunderstood your intent I apologize.

the lipitor advertisement is a terrible argument considering that it was placed by a business interested only in profits and that it was discovered promptly and corrected. Vaccines are vouched for and researched by people who stand to make no $ on it and it is constantly being monitored with errors in "advertising" being discovered at all.

Offline Chaikel

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 6787
  • Total likes: 86
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 20
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: LH SEN, SPG Plat, Hyatt Plat, Rav Kav Platinum
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #773 on: April 10, 2014, 10:56:48 AM »

the Talmud says you want to lie do it about far away stuff ,scare the public with faraway 3rd world  or yesteryear baloney



Yes, this is great proof against the quacks. Thanks for bringing it up
Create professional looking itineraries.
Check out eliteitinerary.com

Offline YankyDoodle

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 799
  • Total likes: 43
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #774 on: April 10, 2014, 10:58:59 AM »
they make $ when
1. when you vax
2. when come back with ear infection etc.
3.when there is long term damage Asthma Arthritis Autism ADD ADHD Autism Allergies Thats just the A


CDC close to 10% USA kids have Asthma  http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/asthma.htm

In 2007, CDC estimated that 294,000 U.S. children under age 18 (or 1 in 250 children) have been diagnosed with arthritis or other rheumatic conditions. http://www.cdc.gov/features/dspediatricarthritis/index.html is that also due to "better diagnosis :P "

http://www.cdc.gov/features/dsautismdata/ autism 1.000.000 unvaxed kids how many autistic ones dr eisenstein Has 10s of thousands unvaxed patients 0 autism

the Talmud says you want to lie do it about far away stuff ,scare the public with faraway 3rd world  or yesteryear baloney

Today
 in USA

vaccines are sickening & murdering our innocent children
Read this and respond to it coherently or I will continue to post it every time you post from now on.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-autism-doctor-eisenstein-may22,0,3826791.story

Offline gavhaller

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 749
  • Total likes: 2
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: Flushing, New York
  • Programs: Chase Visa Supreme, Avis Cadillac, Hyatt Vacation Club Owner, Disney Annual-Pass Holder, BA Avios Executive Corporate Shareholder VIP, Citi Platinum Status, Owner Of DFS - Discover Financial Services
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #775 on: April 10, 2014, 11:01:51 AM »
I assume you have not read most of this thread. If you had, you would see that I agree with you completely that it's important to use your head and think things through. However I approach it from a completely different perspective. I am going to trust the doctors and researchers until such time that there is decent evidence showing a problem. I have not seen anything remotely resembling that yet.

You said you will give it to your children because the schools make you. You consistently indicated that there is cause for concern about conspiracies (lipitor and the orthopedic comment amongst others) on a thread about vaccines, it sure seems like you are implying that we should not trust what research has determined about vaccines. If I misunderstood your intent I apologize.

the lipitor advertisement is a terrible argument considering that it was placed by a business interested only in profits and that it was discovered promptly and corrected. Vaccines are vouched for and researched by people who stand to make no $ on it and it is constantly being monitored with errors in "advertising" being discovered at all.
That's why I'm trying to be as open as I can. Vaccines are not bad. They save millions of lives. My point is not proving their bad, but that there can be some stuff which has caused genetic mutations resulting in things like autism,ADHD, etc.

Once again, idk a lot about things. I'm just in the beginning stages of my research. FROM WHAT IVE HEARD, it makes sense to do research. Understandably, the lipitor thing wasn't relavent but from my point of view, it furthered the drive for money and POSSIBLE misinterpratations of results.

Offline gavhaller

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 749
  • Total likes: 2
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: Flushing, New York
  • Programs: Chase Visa Supreme, Avis Cadillac, Hyatt Vacation Club Owner, Disney Annual-Pass Holder, BA Avios Executive Corporate Shareholder VIP, Citi Platinum Status, Owner Of DFS - Discover Financial Services
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #776 on: April 10, 2014, 11:02:24 AM »
Read this and respond to it coherently or I will continue to post it every time you post from now on.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-autism-doctor-eisenstein-may22,0,3826791.story
lol

Offline YankyDoodle

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 799
  • Total likes: 43
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #777 on: April 10, 2014, 11:02:41 AM »
And there are plenty of surgeons who opt for surgery. I had a cyst cut out of my hand by a surgeon in NYC. He advised me to get it cut out. I went for a follow to a different doctor after the surgery- he said he would never have cut that out.he would have punctured it with a needle and drained the fluid. The body does not need to undergo trauma for a cyst.

So no, I don't feel that my comment was inappropriate. Especially if I was subjected to that kind of treatment before.

Mind you, he made 8,000
Are there doctors who are more trigger happy? Always! Find a good one that you are comfortable with. Is it possible he was concerned about a greater risk? Possibly. Why didn't you go for a second opinion and make the best decision for you? Regardless this has absolutely nothing to do with the vaccine discussion. Vaccines are not going to benefit almost any doctor financially and it is highly regulated (unlike a single cyst removal procedure).

Offline jaywhy

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Sep 2012
  • Posts: 3660
  • Total likes: 44
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 7
    • View Profile
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #778 on: April 10, 2014, 11:02:58 AM »
Doing research in medical journals that happen to be online couldn't be any further than doing research on Google. That's like saying because every sefer is online, you can just google psak halacha. Anyone with a qualified opinion will publish it in an established medical journal. Ergo, 99.9% of anything on the internet that isn't in a medical journal is from people who would be barely qualified to apply a band-aid
Your jump in logic is just wrong.
Plenty of well-credentialed doctors have blogs/write articles that don't appear in a medical journal.
You think doctors only write things if they will appear in medical journals? :o
You obviously haven't any research of your own if you have that opinion.

Quote
And the natural selection comment is just fact. Natural selection has taken a huge hit in this decade thanks to modern medicine. But if you refuse it, then you're much more suseptible to natural selection
That is highly debatable. But whether it is true or not, the fact that you consider natural selection wiping out a large portion of the population a good thing is very disturbing.

Offline YankyDoodle

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 799
  • Total likes: 43
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile