Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis

[imayid2]

We are supposed to help people, not re-engineer God's world. If God's world changes as we help people that's a side benefit.

Tweaking an education system to close an age gap isn’t re engineering Gods world.

[aygart]

We are supposed to help people, not re-engineer God's world. If God's world changes as we help people that's a side benefit.

What about re-engineering our actions?

[Euclid]

Why is the solution always that boys should start younger? Maybe girls should wait to start dating. (According to the age gap theory crowd).

Biological clock?

[flyingace]

Why is the solution always that boys should start younger? Maybe girls should wait to start dating. (According to the age gap theory crowd).

They are waiting- in my family alone two girls got engaged at 23-24 to their first boys who were also 23-24. And another almost 22 year old has gone out with one boy since returning from sem.

[yitzgar]

They are waiting- in my family alone two girls got engaged at 23-24 to their first boys who were also 23-24. And another almost 22 year old has gone out with one boy since returning from sem.

But people are calling this situation a crisis because they didn't date/get married until 23-24. Maybe that should be the standard, instead of boys starting to date younger.

[flyingace]

I see that girls are not dating as much/easily as they used to, but it is not clear that they are not getting married as much as they used to.

[Baruch]

I see that girls are not dating as much/easily as they used to, but it is not clear that they are not getting married as much as they used to.

Exactly. All anecdotal evidence is always how few dates, how many resumes, getting married to first boy at 24 etc.
I never hear anecdotes about having 3 40 year olds living on their block….
Bottom line it is reckless to do anything without real numbers.

[jye]

Exactly. All anecdotal evidence is always how few dates, how many resumes, getting married to first boy at 24 etc.
I never hear anecdotes about having 3 40 year olds living on their block….
Bottom line it is reckless to do anything without real numbers.

I hear plenty of anecdotes of singles weekends with lots of normal, emotionally healthy older single females and few normal marriageable material males. I’ve been to hotel programs where there were tablefuls log single girls in their upper 30’s/ low 40’s. I haven’t seen the same with older single guys. Again simply anecdotal since it may simply reflect different venue choices for females vs males.

[cholent]

Exactly. All anecdotal evidence is always how few dates, how many resumes, getting married to first boy at 24 etc.
I never hear anecdotes about having 3 40 year olds living on their block….
Bottom line it is reckless to do anything without real numbers.

I personally know several girls who got married for the first time in their 30s or 40s to men who had been previously married and were divorced or widowed. Still anecdotal.

[Yehuda57]

I personally know several girls who got married for the first time in their 30s or 40s to men who had been previously married and were divorced or widowed. Still anecdotal.

Everyone has the same anecdotes. Everyone knows far more women well into their their 30s and 40s still single than men. Everyone knows that women in their late 20s and 30s can't get a date when men of the same age have no such issue.

But it's only anecdotal.

[avromie7]

I personally know several girls who got married for the first time in their 30s or 40s to men who had been previously married and were divorced or widowed. Still anecdotal.

Men who aren't married at some point become very selfish. Healthy boys who were marriage material can become non-marriage material. This is not usually the case with women. For every girl who marries a previously married man, there can be a boy who is no longer able to get married.

Everyone has the same anecdotes. Everyone knows far more women well into their their 30s and 40s still single than men. Everyone knows that women in their late 20s and 30s can't get a date when men of the same age have no such issue.

But it's only anecdotal.

Who is everyone?

[aygart]

Everyone has the same anecdotes. Everyone knows far more women well into their their 30s and 40s still single than men. Everyone knows that women in their late 20s and 30s can't get a date when men of the same age have no such issue.

But it's only anecdotal.

Not me, but it is only anecdotal.

Also, older single women, anecdotally, are more likely to remain with their family regularly and therefore may be more visible.

Just an added note specific to Lubvitch,

Checking my memory here.

Picked a random date, September 2011.

857 boys: https://web.archive.org/web/20110926150441/http://lubavitchsingles.com/bochrim/list.html
869 girls: https://web.archive.org/web/20111014032830/http://lubavitchsingles.com/girls/index.html

[Euclid]

I alluded to this earlier, but for the "don't do anything without hard data, because of possible unintended consequences" camp - how do you explain how, in previous generations, leaders of klal yisroel made societal changes without rigorous statistical data, and instead relied on anecdotal data?

[Yehuda57]

Just an added note specific to Lubvitch,

Lol, those lists were/are a total joke. IIRC, I was never on the list as I was never on any shlichus lists from yeshivos. the girls don't have shlichus lists, so there is way more chance they would get missed. Plus there were loads of guys and girls who were on those lists long after they were married.

[aygart]

I alluded to this earlier, but for the "don't do anything without hard data, because of possible unintended consequences" camp - how do you explain how, in previous generations, leaders of klal yisroel made societal changes without rigorous statistical data, and instead relied on anecdotal data?

1. Can you give examples?
2. I gave examples of very realistic unintended consequences.

[Euclid]

1. Can you give examples?
2. I gave examples of very realistic unintended consequences.

Examples?
*gestures at the entirety of Jewish diaspora history*

(Didn't cherem dr' gershom on polygamy happen because of a personal bad experience? But I don't want to nitpick on this exact example.)

[avromie7]

Examples?
*gestures at the entirety of Jewish diaspora history*

(Didn't cherem dr' gershom on polygamy happen because of a personal bad experience? But I don't want to nitpick on this exact example.)

Let's take cherem d'Rabbeinu Gershom, there was a problem that affected some people, so Rabbeinu Gershom said no one should engage in this practice. When you are following Rabbeinu Gershom, you are protecting yourself and your wife (and whoever the second wife may be). Over here, there is no relation between what someone does different and the effect it has on anyone. I believe any societal changes you find will share this distinction.

[aygart]

Examples?
*gestures at the entirety of Jewish diaspora history*

Sooo?

[yitzgar]

Men and women who aren't married at some point can often become very selfish.

Ftfy

[avromie7]

Ftfy

Men are much more susceptible.