The Future of Lakewood

[jye]

Yes.
It is יהרג ואל יעבור to impersonate as a Christian.

Source? He talked about his supposed shared catholic upbringing to woo girls and wore the cross just as many non believing goyim do these days. Is there any reason to assume that he professed to be a religious believing catholic while sleeping around outside of marriage which is against catholic beliefs? Is his professed upbringing and his choice of jewelry enough to take him out of the category of מומר לתיאבון , even if done repeatedly?

[imayid2]

Source?

It is יהרג ואל יעבור to say you are a Christian.
See יו״ד קנ״ז ב.

[imayid2]

Is his professed upbringing and his choice of jewelry enough to take him out of the category of מומר לתיאבון , even if done repeatedly?

Even if not he was פורק ממנו עול מלכות שמים לגמרי.

[imayid2]

I'm not trying to preach. I know his family, and I can't imagine how much they are already hurt from his actions.

I’m sure they are going through a rough time. Nothing here is about them. I think it’s perfectly in line to express shock indignation and outrage about what he did, and it shouldn’t make it more painful to them that people think so.

חפץ חיים כלל י ד
שיתרחקו הבריות מדרך רשע כשישמעו שאנשים מגנים פועלי און

[YitzyS]

Isn’t he divorced?

Indeed, but he was married until recently. And his son will always be his son.

I’m sure they are going through a rough time. Nothing here is about them. I think it’s perfectly in line to express shock indignation and outrage about what he did, and it shouldn’t make it more painful to them that people think so.

חפץ חיים כלל י ד
שיתרחקו הבריות מדרך רשע כשישמעו שאנשים מגנים פועלי און

I'm not saying that it's not normal or allowed. I'm saying that it can have negative implications for victims.

Imagine his son, now 12-years-old, and being at least somewhat in the dark about what went on. He gets a little older and comes across the Daily Beast article or is told by others about his biological father's antics. He's shocked and embarrassed, but he can save face by convincing himself that none of his friends read it and that the frum community doesn't know of his father's actions. But when a quick Google search brings up DDF and he sees that everyone in the frum community hashed out every aspect of his father's infidelity, he may forever walk around with a stigma on him.

Not saying I would've thought to consider this if it would've been a random stranger. Perhaps it is a fault in me. But since I know them, and I know how upstanding and innocent they are, this consideration bothers me.

[imayid2]

Indeed, but he was married until recently. And his son will always be his son.
I'm not saying that it's not normal or allowed. I'm saying that it can have negative implications for victims.

Imagine his son, now 12-years-old, and being at least somewhat in the dark about what went on. He gets a little older and comes across the Daily Beast article or is told by others about his biological father's antics. He's shocked and embarrassed, but he can save face by convincing himself that none of his friends read it and that the frum community doesn't know of his father's actions. But when a quick Google search brings up DDF and he sees that everyone in the frum community hashed out every aspect of his father's infidelity, he may forever walk around with a stigma on him.

Not saying I would've thought to consider this if it would've been a random stranger. Perhaps it is a fault in me. But since I know them, and I know how upstanding and innocent they are, this consideration bothers me.

I here your point, though it technically applies to any and every pervert who commits the most egregious of crimes. This natural consequence is the another causality caused by the perpetrator, really.

[Sammy82]

I here your point, though it technically applies to any and every pervert who commits the most egregious of crimes. This natural consequence is the another causality caused by the perpetrator, really.

What does anybody gain by hashing it out here? If it was a scam and people were 'being saved' from investing or whatever, then MAYBE, but this???

[jye]

Even if they're clearly wearing it as part of a persona, and not because they actually believe in Christianity?

It is יהרג ואל יעבור to say you are a Christian.
See יו״ד קנ״ז ב.

I wonder if that truly applies nowadays when a significant percentage of US Catholics do not even believe in G-d and calling themselves catholic is more of a cultural affiliation. A Jew saying he is “a catholic” might very well be a לישנא דמשתמע לתרי אנפי.

[ellemeno]

Source? He talked about his supposed shared catholic upbringing to woo girls and wore the cross just as many non believing goyim do these days. Is there any reason to assume that he professed to be a religious believing catholic while sleeping around outside of marriage which is against catholic beliefs? Is his professed upbringing and his choice of jewelry enough to take him out of the category of מומר לתיאבון , even if done repeatedly?

This is to emphasize the חומר הענין, not to compare the two.

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37161&st=&pgnum=99

[MarkS]

At least he was trying to fulfill this...
אמר רבי אלעאי הזקן: אם רואה אדם שיצרו מתגבר עליו, ילך למקום שאין מכירין אותו, וילבש שחורים ויתכסה שחורים ויעשה כמו שלבו חפץ, ואל יחלל שם שמים בפרהסיא

[YitzyS]

I here your point, though it technically applies to any and every pervert who commits the most egregious of crimes. This natural consequence is the another causality caused by the perpetrator, really.

This. Thank you Sammy82 for posted what I was thinking.

What does anybody gain by hashing it out here? If it was a scam and people were 'being saved' from investing or whatever, then MAYBE, but this???

[yawn]

I here your point, though it technically applies to any and every pervert who commits the most egregious of crimes. This natural consequence is the another causality caused by the perpetrator, really.

This may be a distinction without a difference, but in most instances there are victims whom we feel bad for and use their pain to justify our gossip. And we don't focus on the pain of perpetrators children because it often pales in comparison to the pain of the victims children. But this was pretty much a victimless "crime." Not much time was spent on DDF maligning at least 2 individuals recently involved in medicaid fraud, primarily because they are victimless crimes. So yes it's good hock but at the end of the day is it worth it?

[jye]

This may be a distinction without a difference, but in most instances there are victims whom we feel bad for and use their pain to justify our gossip. And we don't focus on the pain of perpetrators children because it often pales in comparison to the pain of the victims children. But this was pretty much a victimless "crime." Not much time was spent on DDF maligning at least 2 individuals recently involved in medicaid fraud, primarily because they are victimless crimes. So yes it's good hock but at the end of the day is it worth it?

Victimless until one of them is wearing a wire entrapping others….

[imayid2]

I wonder if that truly applies nowadays when a significant percentage of US Catholics do not even believe in G-d and calling themselves catholic is more of a cultural affiliation. A Jew saying he is “a catholic” might very well be a לישנא דמשתמע לתרי אנפי.

I strongly disagree with this.

[ari3]

Cross wearers aren’t protected by the rules of LH.

But his mother and cousin (who were publicly named) are

[imayid2]

This. Thank you Sammy82 for posted what I was thinking.

There are lessons to be learned here imo. When somebody so brilliant in Torah learning can still fall so low, it should teach us about the importance of proper yirah with Torah.

[imayid2]

But his mother and cousin (who were publicly named) are

So it’s LH about them?
Source?

[jye]

I strongly disagree with this.

The fact that describing oneself as a blue eyed white male catholic on a dating site for example can be ethnic rather than belief, or the tzad that it might be considered תרי אנפי?

[imayid2]

The fact that describing oneself as a blue eyed white male catholic on a dating site for example can be ethnic rather than belief, or the tzad that it might be considered תרי אנפי?

The guy was wearing a cross and identifying as Catholic for heaven sake!

[Sammy82]

There are lessons to be learned here imo. When somebody so brilliant in Torah learning can still fall so low, it should teach us about the importance of proper yirah with Torah.

Give me a break. If ur learning that from this forum, the lesson may be to get off the internet.
If u want to just gossip, come straight out and say it. Don't try to justify it with the most cruma svaras.