Topic Wiki

Links to kosher symbol lists. Each list is obviously only as reliable as its source

cRc: http://www.crcweb.org/agency_list.php

KosherQuest: https://kosherquest.org/kosher-symbols/

Approved alcoholic drinks from the Rabbanut.  http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/wp-content/uploads/%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A7%D7%90%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%97%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%9E%D7%90%D7%95%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D.pdf

These are NOT Orthodox: https://sites.google.com/site/nonorthodoxkosher/home (even though some may look legit)


Informative post regarding Kashrus Agencies
Every hashgacha has +&-.


You can also submit any kashrus questions at
https://www.askcrc.org/ask
https://oukosher.org/ask-kosher-question/
https://www.star-k.org/ask-rabbi choose General Consumer Kashrus Questions in the Subject/Topic Dropdown list
https://www.ok.org/contact/ choose Kosher in the Attention Dropdown list



Author Topic: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread  (Read 901600 times)

Offline JMHO

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #5380 on: October 02, 2023, 08:59:28 AM »
Rubin is very Makpid that things are run the way they like it. (Heard first hand from someone who had them as their Rav Hamachshir)
I think we can safely assume that Kehillos does not.
Is this fact based or an opinion?

Offline avromie7

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #5381 on: October 02, 2023, 09:13:46 AM »
Agreed.
And they charge less because:
Most probably they do less.
So its less of a Hechsher...
This is motzi shem rah. It also begins to explain the crazy world of israeli hechsherim and the politics involved. If someone is cheaper or get too many new clients in the past few years, it must be because they're inferior. How can you say that without any factual evidence?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline imayid2

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #5382 on: October 02, 2023, 10:10:43 AM »
This is motzi shem rah. It also begins to explain the crazy world of israeli hechsherim and the politics involved. If someone is cheaper or get too many new clients in the past few years, it must be because they're inferior. How can you say that without any factual evidence?
So Kehillos not being on par with badatz and Landau is motzei shem rah and politics?
 ::)

Offline avromie7

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #5383 on: October 02, 2023, 10:28:01 AM »
So Kehillos not being on par with badatz and Landau is motzei shem rah and politics?
 ::)
That can be debated, but when it's based on them being cheaper or because they recently got a lot of new clients then it definitely is.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #5384 on: October 02, 2023, 01:07:03 PM »
So Kehillos not being on par with badatz and Landau is motzei shem rah and politics?
 ::)

Isn't עד אחד נאמן באיסורין basically placing all hechserim on the same level anyway, as far as the consumer is concerned? ;)

Offline Darth1

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #5385 on: October 02, 2023, 04:16:28 PM »
Rubin is very Makpid that things are run the way they like it. (Heard first hand from someone who had them as their Rav Hamachshir)
I think we can safely assume that Kehillos does not.
Is this fact based or an opinion?
I'm assuming what he means is that Rubin requires restaurants to only use their supplier (Rav Rubins son in law...) Which gives them a lot more control over the food coming in (and $$). Kehillos does not have a similar arrangement. Neither does anyone else afaik.

The only concrete thing I heard about Kehillos was a chashuva Rav asked to go see there shechita a couple of years ago (When more people deemed them on a top standard.) and they were happy to give him a guided tour. He tried again a couple times with in the past year and they are not allowing him into the shlachtous.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #5386 on: October 02, 2023, 09:40:20 PM »
I'm assuming what he means is that Rubin requires restaurants to only use their supplier (Rav Rubins son in law...) Which gives them a lot more control over the food coming in (and $$). Kehillos does not have a similar arrangement. Neither does anyone else afaik.

The only concrete thing I heard about Kehillos was a chashuva Rav asked to go see there shechita a couple of years ago (When more people deemed them on a top standard.) and they were happy to give him a guided tour. He tried again a couple times with in the past year and they are not allowing him into the shlachtous.
Wow, these rumors are based on some serious evidence.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline yfr bachur

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #5387 on: October 03, 2023, 02:20:03 AM »
@Moshe Green
While you may mean well, when you post accusations that are at best unsubstansiated garbage (K is not reliable bec it took up lots of places that Rubin dropped), or baseless assumptions (Rubin runs a tight ship, we can assume that K does not) you hurt the point that you are trying to make. You also provide amo for those who say "its all politics"...

You may not know why suddenly K is picking up places, or Rubin is dropping them - but to jump from that to "must be K is a lesser hechsher" is just stupid.

For many years there was a general status quo that resturants in Charedi residential areas in JLM would close by a certain time. The Eida will not give a hechsher on places open later... (check out geula after 8pm!)
A certain area came to be an exception to this... attracting people from far and wide to come to purchase there - making lots of noise and attracting anshei dlo maali to hang out there.
After trying unsuccessfully to work with the stores directly - the local rabbanim worked with the hechsherim to get the hechsher removed from any store opened after the time (I belive it was 11:30pm).
K was then in expansion mode and picked up the stores that lost their hechsher... Does it say something about the hechsher? Yes. Does it say anything about the kashrus standards of the hechsher... NO.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2023, 02:34:01 AM by yfr bachur »

Offline yfr bachur

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #5388 on: October 03, 2023, 02:38:44 AM »
Not necessarily at all. Some local chasidish BP hechsherim are very good and far cheaper than OU simply because they're more local.

or not using kashrus as a way to fund a massive national orginisation...
Samething with the Eida.

The OU and EC are not in the "chesed to the tzibur" bussiness.
They both use the proceeds (profits) from the kashrus division to help fund other parts of their orgs.
Which is partialy why they are more expensive than taking another hechsher which is filling much smaller funding needs...

Offline Moshe Green

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #5389 on: October 03, 2023, 05:21:04 AM »
@Moshe Green
While you may mean well, when you post accusations that are at best unsubstansiated garbage (K is not reliable bec it took up lots of places that Rubin dropped), or baseless assumptions (Rubin runs a tight ship, we can assume that K does not) you hurt the point that you are trying to make. You also provide amo for those who say "its all politics"...

You may not know why suddenly K is picking up places, or Rubin is dropping them - but to jump from that to "must be K is a lesser hechsher" is just stupid.

For many years there was a general status quo that resturants in Charedi residential areas in JLM would close by a certain time. The Eida will not give a hechsher on places open later... (check out geula after 8pm!)
A certain area came to be an exception to this... attracting people from far and wide to come to purchase there - making lots of noise and attracting anshei dlo maali to hang out there.
After trying unsuccessfully to work with the stores directly - the local rabbanim worked with the hechsherim to get the hechsher removed from any store opened after the time (I belive it was 11:30pm).
K was then in expansion mode and picked up the stores that lost their hechsher... Does it say something about the hechsher? Yes. Does it say anything about the kashrus standards of the hechsher... NO.
Perhaps you are referring to a different Moshe Green but i don't ever recall saying that Kehillos is a bad Hechsher. In fact, i actually eat food with a Kehillos Hechsher.

I did mention that they picked up many places very fast. That's not "unsubstantiated garbage", its a fact. This means that they probably have a lower standard then the top 4-5 Hechsheirim. That's all.
But please don't be naiive and say that the lower price is because they are "not political". Rubin is not political and doesn't use the income to push youth groups or for publications. It's just a higher level of Kasharus. That's all.

As an aside, as mentioned before, lets trust the experts. Rabbi Kuber is definitely not political. He's the most apolitical guy you'll get and he says that Kehillos has gone down.

Offline yfr bachur

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #5390 on: October 03, 2023, 08:54:02 AM »
I remember Kehillos as a small little Hechsher and then BOOM! all the restaurants started taking it... it just seems fishy to me... If they had such high standards then they wouldn't be such a draw...
I understand that, but i've seen it in many places. Many new restaurants also went for Kehillos instead of Rubin...
And also, why did those places that lost Rubin not go for Landau, Sheiris, or Bedat"z? The answer is pretty obvious, the lower price of chicken/meat and the lower standards of required Kashrus.
Agreed.
And they charge less because:
Most probably they do less.
So its less of a Hechsher...

Kehillos is not local. It's a national Hechsher from Dan til Eilat.
A restaurateur wants mainly a Hechsher that will attract his clientele and also not drive him crazy.
Rubin is very Makpid that things are run the way they like it. (Heard first hand from someone who had them as their Rav Hamachshir)
I think we can safely assume that Kehillos does not.

Your words, not mine.

It's your unsubstantiated assumption that rapid growth = lesser standards, when much of that growth can easly be attributed to other factofrs.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2023, 09:02:15 AM by yfr bachur »

Offline avromie7

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #5391 on: October 03, 2023, 09:40:22 AM »
Why are some people who claim to be so makpid on kashrus so careless with LH?
Perhaps you are referring to a different Moshe Green but i don't ever recall saying that Kehillos is a bad Hechsher. In fact, i actually eat food with a Kehillos Hechsher.

I did mention that they picked up many places very fast. That's not "unsubstantiated garbage", its a fact. This means that they probably have a lower standard then the top 4-5 Hechsheirim. That's all.
Even insinuating there is a connection between the number of new clients and the quality of the hechsher is straight up motzi shem rah. Additionally, relative quality is irrelevant. Why are you weighing one hechsher against another?
Quote
But please don't be naiive and say that  lower price is because they are "not political". Rubin is not political and doesn't use the income to push youth groups or for publications. It's just a higher level of Kasharus. That's all.
Again motzi shem rah.
Quote
As an aside, as mentioned before, lets trust the experts. Rabbi Kuber is definitely not political. He's the most apolitical guy you'll get and he says that Kehillos has gone down.
Did you hear it from him, or are you just repeating the word on the street. If the latter, this is also LH.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline imayid2

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #5392 on: October 03, 2023, 09:47:35 AM »
Additionally, relative quality is irrelevant. Why are you weighing one hechsher against another?
To know and understand the pros and cons of a specific hechsher and be an educated kosher consumer, itís helpful to compare and contrast how hechsher x operates and what their policies are vis a vis hechsher y.

Offline imayid2

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #5393 on: October 03, 2023, 10:26:26 AM »
Even insinuating there is a connection between the number of new clients and the quality of the hechsher is straight up motzi shem rah.
No it is not. Establishments have no reason to opt for a stricter standard barring demand, and if a specific hechsher not known to be on the top tier is getting a large number of new clients, it is reasonable to suspect a lower standard as causation. That does not mean itís a ďbadĒ hechsher, just less onerous on the establishment owners.

As pointed out this isnít necessarily מוכרח, as there can be standards unrelated to Kashrus that are lower, as well as pricing considerations.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #5394 on: October 03, 2023, 10:55:21 AM »
No it is not. Establishments have no reason to opt for a stricter standard barring demand, and if a specific hechsher not known to be on the top tier is getting a large number of new clients, it is reasonable to suspect a lower standard as causation. That does not mean itís a ďbadĒ hechsher, just less onerous on the establishment owners.

As pointed out this isnít necessarily מוכרח, as there can be standards unrelated to Kashrus that are lower, as well as pricing considerations.
That's conjecture. Even if you're allowed to think it to yourself, how can you start rumors based on it?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline imayid2

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #5395 on: October 03, 2023, 11:03:42 AM »
That's conjecture. Even if you're allowed to think it to yourself, how can you start rumors based on it?
What rumor is being started?

Offline avromie7

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #5396 on: October 03, 2023, 11:05:52 AM »
What rumor is being started?
The claim that Kehillos is not such a good hechsher
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline imayid2

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #5397 on: October 03, 2023, 11:06:37 AM »
The claim that Kehillos is not such a good hechsher
The List already says that, no?

Offline aygart

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #5398 on: October 03, 2023, 11:10:17 AM »
To know and understand the pros and cons of a specific hechsher and be an educated kosher consumer, itís helpful to compare and contrast how hechsher x operates and what their policies are vis a vis hechsher y.
Correct but what those important differences were has not been forthcoming. It was only a vague statement that their standards must be lower in some unknown way.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #5399 on: October 03, 2023, 11:11:19 AM »
The List already says that, no?
Is this based on rapid growth? If yes then it is worthless.
Feelings don't care about your facts