Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread

[Just A Jew]

I dont buy that the kashrus problems of today is worse than the times of chazal. Especially when they were in Eretz yisroel.

Seriously? There was no mass production back then, and no nameless, faceless companies. There were also fewer, if any, artificial products, so generally you knew what each ingredient was. A simple canned drink today has more ingredients you know nothing about than most anything that was being sold back then.

[TheAsh]

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H. Just a couple of examples to bring out the difficulty in across the board acceptance of the "its kosher" no matter the cirucumstance
You see a jew of unknown religiosity in EY selling cut fruits and vegis. He says it's kosher. What does this include? That he cut the dvar charif with a kosher knife? that it's not orlah? that it's not takroves ovada zara? that its not asur bec of shmita? that it's been truma an maasered properly? or he said its kosher so i can eat it? what about demai?
Someone gives you a celophane wrapped package of square matzos in your mishloach manos and tells you "its kosher". Can you eat these without taking chalah? what about at layl haseder? or maybe theyre kosher chometz matzos?
Someone gives you a fillet of fish w/o the skin. he says it's kosher. does this mean that it was checked for bugs that theres a machlokes if they;re asur or mutar?

I was referring to exclusively the examples here. (My response edited out the quote, so it wasn't clear). All three of these are chazal situations and I find it hard to believe עד אחד doesn't apply.

[imayid2]

I was referring to exclusively the examples here. (My response edited out the quote, so it wasn't clear). All three of these are chazal situations and I find it hard to believe עד אחד doesn't apply.

Agree to the first
ETA not really because if his religious status is unknown and he’s selling it we pasken EA won’t work iirc.

To number 2, you think it can be used on pesach? Also, did he bake the matza? Maybe he is saying it’s kosher because it had a hechsher which you personally don’t trust. If you’re makpid on yoshon there is no need to ask if he meant that too?
To number 3, if it’s a machlokes about tolaim that you’re personally concerned for how do you know he he is aware or concerned for that opinion? Also, did he personally check for scales? Maybe he got it from a hecsher he isn’t makpid on Rav Moshe.

[TheAsh]

Agree to the first
ETA not really because if his religious status is unknown and he’s selling it we pasken EA won’t work iirc.

To number 2, you think it can be used on pesach? Also, did he bake the matza? Maybe he is saying it’s kosher because it had a hechsher which you personally don’t trust. If you’re makpid on yoshon there is no need to ask if he meant that too?
To number 3, if it’s a machlokes about tolaim that you’re personally concerned for how do you know he he is aware or concerned for that opinion? Also, did he personally check for scales? Maybe he got it from a hecsher he isn’t makpid on Rav Moshe.

You can eat it without taking challah. He didn't say it's kosher lepesach, so the whole discussion doesn't start and is a strawman.

As to the fish, you can sagely assume it's a kosher fillet. Bugs would be no different then you give me an apple.

If I was at a sueda at a frum yids house, I would eat the food. Same if he gave me meahalach manos. That's the mekor of the severa. I wouldn't apply it to restaurants,  catered meals, or factory products. 

[imayid2]

You can eat it without taking challah. He didn't say it's kosher lepesach, so the whole discussion doesn't start and is a strawman.

As to the fish, you can sagely assume it's a kosher fillet. Bugs would be no different then you give me an apple.

If I was at a sueda at a frum yids house, I would eat the food. Same if he gave me meahalach manos. That's the mekor of the severa. I wouldn't apply it to restaurants,  catered meals, or factory products.

You did not answer address my questions.
So you have no reason to think he meant kosher for pesach. What about yoshon or not hechsher x that you don’t use for product y for whatever reason?

[TheAsh]

You did not answer address my questions.
So you have no reason to think he meant kosher for pesach. What about yoshon or not hechsher x that you don’t use for product y for whatever reason?

Again, what did you think chazal meant? You can eat by a friend's house after you grill him for two hours on each ingredient in his cholent?

[TheAsh]

You did not answer address my questions.
So you have no reason to think he meant kosher for pesach. What about yoshon or not hechsher x that you don’t use for product y for whatever reason?

I would not be concerned. These are all legitimate halachic opinions which are overridden due to דרכי שלום and what חז"ל held.

Obviously,  if there is a real chashash, this would not apply.

[imayid2]

I would not be concerned. These are all legitimate halachic opinions which are overridden due to דרכי שלום and what חז"ל held.

Obviously,  if there is a real chashash, this would not apply.

Lol

[imayid2]

Again, what did you think chazal meant? You can eat by a friend's house after you grill him for two hours on each ingredient in his cholent?

Seriously? There was no mass production back then, and no nameless, faceless companies. There were also fewer, if any, artificial products, so generally you knew what each ingredient was. A simple canned drink today has more ingredients you know nothing about than most anything that was being sold back then.

[aygart]

I dont buy that the kashrus problems of today is worse than the times of chazal. Especially when they were in Eretz yisroel.

It is definitely much more complex.

[aygart]

Again, what did you think chazal meant? You can eat by a friend's house after you grill him for two hours on each ingredient in his cholent?

Can someone makpid on CY eat at a random Modox home who CY may not be on the radar at all? If the person is aware that you are makpid then you can assume that he won't give you something he knows you consider to be assur.

[avromie7]

At what point of the guy's ignorance and/or lack of religiosity would you agree that it's on you?
Never went to yeshiva? Conservative? Reform? Reconsrtuctionist? Jews for J? Actual Aino Yehudi?

He needs to have a chezkas kashrus.

You're putting way more halchick weight on a idea you heard about in third year bais medrash than it actually has.
EA is EIDUS. No different than other eidus. part of eidus is WHAT are you saying EXACTLY. Not "I saw a new moon" - exact position, when, where... ect...

What would you say if there was a box of cookies on a random street corner in Manhatten with a sign "Free - Kosher". Is that Eidus? Is that on "him" or you?

Just to remind you EA is a KULA! Without it we need two kosher eidim even by isur.

Lets put it a different way - would you trust a random jewish looking person to tell you that the kesem you have a shayla on is fine, no problem. Why not? Eid echad neeman beisurin, and this is isurin, No?

Quite the contrary, this is what I was mekabel from my Rebbi Harav Reuven Feinstein. Lucky for us, he put it in writing for everyone to see.

[EliJelly]

Everyone? Really?

being sarcastic.

[imayid2]

He needs to have a chezkas kashrus.
Quite the contrary, this is what I was mekabel from my Rebbi Harav Reuven Feinstein. Lucky for us, he put it in writing for everyone to see.

Most of the questions and points raised here apply to what he writes.
אם קבלה נקבל אם לדין יש עליו תשובה

Not saying you shouldn't follow your personal authority, but if you're attempting to argue the point on its merits you havent answered the questions.

[EliJelly]

He needs to have a chezkas kashrus.
Quite the contrary, this is what I was mekabel from my Rebbi Harav Reuven Feinstein. Lucky for us, he put it in writing for everyone to see.

Let's leave aside for a moment that a lot of this is a דעת יחידאה as we have been through all of that already. He focuses on trust and distrust, not on baselessly assuming one is an expert on matters that requires high expertise or knowing the complexities of something we know that aren't too many who know.

[aygart]

He needs to have a chezkas kashrus.
Quite the contrary, this is what I was mekabel from my Rebbi Harav Reuven Feinstein. Lucky for us, he put it in writing for everyone to see.

As has been discussed many times, this is a "shvere R Reuven" and while you are following your Rebbi, it makes sense for everyone else to follow the many poskim who disagree and go with what seems to be the pashute halacha.

[TheAsh]

As has been discussed many times, this is a "shvere R Reuven" and while you are following your Rebbi, it makes sense for everyone else to follow the many poskim who disagree and go with what seems to be the pashute halacha.

I think even Reb Reuven wouldn't eat Cupk or ikc. But there's a huge widespread difference between that and not trusting that matzoh someone gave you is kosher.

[mevinyavin]

It sounds like you have more respect for a takana of  'Vaad arba artzos' (of which the only rabbonim I know of who tell people it is Halacha are conveniently also profiting from charging poor bnei torah for it) than you care about תורת משה.

This is why the Ran said in his Vidduy אֵת אֲשֶׁר הֵקַלְתָּ הֶחֱמַרְתִּי, וַאֲשֶׁר הֶחֱמַרְתָּ הֵקַלְתִּי.

ETA - I read it again and I am just mind boggled. עד אחד נאמן באיסורים is 'a kula' but a (long forgotten) takana of 'Vaad arba artzos' is יהרג ואל יעבור...

Just jumping on this for now. I will IY"H try to post Rabbi Berkovit's exact words later.
Rabbi Berkovits is one of those who 'has respect for' VAA. In response, he opened up a COST-PRICE home hechsher so that those who follow him can afford to have a home hechsher and still earn a living. So, at least one example where you are not correct. (Off-hand, I know of at least five home-businesses that started under his hechsher and eventually became big enough to get Eida.)
The VAA is a long forgotten takana!? Yehoreg v'al yaavor!? 

[moko]

In your zealousness to find chumros and issurim you are literally knocking and belittling the Torah itself, דברי אלוקים חיים. It sounds like you have more respect for a takana of  'Vaad arba artzos' (of which the only rabbonim I know of who tell people it is Halacha are conveniently also profiting from charging poor bnei torah for it) than you care about תורת משה.

This is why the Ran said in his Vidduy אֵת אֲשֶׁר הֵקַלְתָּ הֶחֱמַרְתִּי, וַאֲשֶׁר הֶחֱמַרְתָּ הֵקַלְתִּי.

ETA - I read it again and I am just mind boggled. עד אחד נאמן באיסורים is 'a kula' but a (long forgotten) takana of 'Vaad arba artzos' is יהרג ואל יעבור...

talk about jumping to conclusion and spewing nonsense....we also have vidui for that.
How many local vaadim provide at cost or kashrus at a loss.
I know we we and others who do.
Apparently Rabbis are supposed live off nothing.... Why pay shul Rabbis, why pay a rav hamachshir? They owe you their lives those greedy mamzeirim living the high life off our backs......this is the nonsense we hear from the likes of Barry dolinger but apparently from long time DDF members as well

I read it again and I am just mind boggled.

[imayid2]

I think even Reb Reuven wouldn't eat Cupk or ikc. But there's a huge widespread difference between that and not trusting that matzoh someone gave you is kosher.

Assuming there aren't specific brands that you don't eat there is little to be concerned about if someone gives you matza. But for a product that is more sensitive and you have certain standards, it makes no sense to drop them just bec someone else is giving it to you. Unless you have good reason to assume he knows and is capable of meeting it.