Author Topic: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live  (Read 771223 times)

Offline mevinyavin

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Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #3960 on: May 29, 2023, 03:13:54 AM »
I heard of an American trying to explain sesame chicken to an Israeli: "It's like Rugelach, but with chicken inside"
I always order my sesame chicken from Atza without the sesame. I also always forget to tell them to hold the sesame on something or other, and my wife has to eat the whole thing.
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Offline Afrages6

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Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #3961 on: May 29, 2023, 06:39:19 AM »
As far as I can tell, they are both Rabbanut (Mehadrin).
Many, many locals don't accept that as first (or third) choice....
And a pizza emergency don't qualify  :)

In a city that has so many Truely "Mehadrin" options, (i.e. Eida, Rubin, landau, sheiris, kehilos....) why do so many "heimish" visitors insist on reinventing the wheel, not trusting local experts, "doing their own research"...???
So you won't be able to eat in every highly rated place, or eat the breakfast buffet in the hotel you got on points, you won't go hungry, I promise!
Why do you seem personally insulted by this?

Offline mevinyavin

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Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #3962 on: May 29, 2023, 06:51:25 AM »
Why do you seem personally insulted by this?
I know the question wasn't directed at me, but I'll take a stab at it.
Kashrus standards in Israel run the wider range: from truly astoundingly excellent to truly astoundingly bad. And we, who have to do our research and decide what is acceptable, have seen some truly astoundingly bad things in places that people who we know eat in, and it bothers us. Wouldn't it bother you?
It isn't that we don't know the difference between good and great. There are hechsherim I don't eat and places I don't eat in, but it doesn't necessarily bother me when people eat there. But there are also worse hechsherim and worse places, and then it does bother me. I don't insist that people keep my standards, even when my own close family comes to visit. But I do open my mouth when I think they are making a grave mistake.
(You have to know how to ask Rabbi Berkovits the question. For myself, I ask if I should eat it. When family is taking everyone out, and they wouldn't listen to me, the question is how bad it is. Sometimes the answer is, "You can't throw it out, so you have to find someone who would eat it." Sometimes the answer is, "Sholom is more important - you should eat with them." Sometimes the answer is, "Are you sure they won't listen to you? Are you really sure?" Sometimes, he says, "Just don't go." You'll get a different answer if it is family versus an acquaintance or friend.)
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Offline Dan

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Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #3963 on: May 29, 2023, 08:27:48 AM »
Why do you seem personally insulted by this?
Because Israelis are kanoim.
You don't see anyone protesting people eating at non "truly mehadrin" places in the US. Sure, some don't eat OU or Star-K, but that's because their LOR told that that's what they do.

In Israel more people can't handle other standards.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline bochur22

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Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #3964 on: May 29, 2023, 09:26:08 AM »
Quote from: Dan
Have you tried Craft (NY style) or Anthony's (Italy style)?
Nothing else in Israel comes remotely close IMHO.
As far as I can tell, they are both Rabbanut (Mehadrin).
Many, many locals don't accept that as first (or third) choice....
And a pizza emergency don't qualify  :)
What he said...
If you do Rabbanut Mehadrin, then I've heard Pizza Formaggio on King George is great

Offline aygart

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Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #3965 on: May 29, 2023, 10:10:10 AM »
Because Israelis are kanoim.
You don't see anyone protesting people eating at non "truly mehadrin" places in the US. Sure, some don't eat OU or Star-K, but that's because their LOR told that that's what they do.

In Israel more people can't handle other standards.

Like those who can't understand why people would be complaining about the pizza since there is a good one under a hashgocha they eat? :P
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Dan

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Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #3966 on: May 29, 2023, 10:20:01 AM »
Like those who can't understand why people would be complaining about the pizza since there is a good one under a hashgocha they eat? :P
Just need to say you don't eat J'lem rabanut mehadrin dairy. Can leave the judginess behind.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #3967 on: May 29, 2023, 11:02:10 AM »
Just need to say you don't eat J'lem rabanut mehadrin dairy. Can leave the judginess behind.

Do they reject CCPT, Badatz BY and Belz? All of those are known to be non-reliable for dairy.

You can convince yourself that

Because Israelis are kanoim.
You don't see anyone protesting people eating at non "truly mehadrin" places in the US. Sure, some don't eat OU or Star-K, but that's because their LOR told that that's what they do.

In Israel more people can't handle other standards.
But the bottom line is that CCPT, Belz and Badatz BY have been proven to not adhere to any standard when it comes to imported dairy.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Dan

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Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #3968 on: May 29, 2023, 11:10:49 AM »
Do they reject CCPT, Badatz BY and Belz? All of those are known to be non-reliable for dairy.

You can convince yourself that
But the bottom line is that CCPT, Belz and Badatz BY have been proven to not adhere to any standard when it comes to imported dairy.
I recall going through this in the past and they don't rely on those, but feel free to research again.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #3969 on: May 29, 2023, 01:01:52 PM »
I recall going through this in the past and they don't rely on those, but feel free to research again.

My research resulted in RYM being "case by case" (which means unless specifically known to be acceptable for an establishment, it is not). Not a very practical approach as research is needed every time.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline lcm

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Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #3970 on: May 29, 2023, 01:04:42 PM »
Shouldn't this discussion be moved to the kashrus thread?

Offline jj1000

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Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #3971 on: May 29, 2023, 01:09:52 PM »
Shouldn't this discussion be moved to the kashrus thread?
No, it is making a very strong case against living in Israel.

;)
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Online Euclid

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Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #3972 on: May 29, 2023, 01:10:42 PM »
No, it is making a very strong case against living in Israel.

;)
This, and the lack of elongated toilet seats.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #3973 on: May 29, 2023, 01:16:53 PM »
No, it is making a very strong case against living in Israel.

;)

Especially for people that like ketchup.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline lcm

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Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #3974 on: May 29, 2023, 01:17:05 PM »


No, it is making a very strong case for living in Cleveland.

;)

FTFY ;)

Offline JMHO

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Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #3975 on: May 29, 2023, 01:18:38 PM »
No, it is making a very strong case against living in Israel.

;)
Cv.

Offline yfr bachur

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Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #3976 on: May 29, 2023, 01:22:11 PM »
Why do you seem personally insulted by this?

Not personaly, but I'll walk you through why you might get that opinion:

Times have changed and you can get great mehadrin pizza in Israel from places like Anthony's and Craft now.
I would expect you to know by now what value I place on that word/adjective. Even if it were under a השגחה I would trust....
1. You can research yourself if they meet your standards.
J2 on bais yisrael is from the best you will get here (Eida)
Big Apple on Paran is pretty good too (Rubin)
followed by:
Have you tried Craft (NY style) or Anthony's (Italy style)? (Rabbanut Mehadrin)
Nothing else in Israel comes remotely close IMHO.

It's not that I'm a kanoi, or Israeli! (I'm not either  :) )
I've been trying very hard to write in a language that expresses the point I would like to make without calling out specific people, or groups.
It's just that when the point is made that when a non-local who may have done his best to do his research, calls something that locals do not consider mehadrin, "Mehadrin", is reminded of this by other (local) users on the forum, and insists on asking posters who post about shops with consensus level 1 hechsherim, if they ever tried his favorite carefully researched level 3 hechsher joint, and how it's the best there is...

This isn't deepest darkest Peru where we need to rely on all kinds of kulos to be able to eat (out).
There are many high-level kashrus, quality restaurants and takeouts all over the city...
It's true that it's important to know who/what to rely on bshas hadchak but why push the borderline acceptable as lechatchila??
(A friend of mine once went to a certain city in Gush Dan with his wife (he had some sort of meeting), relying on a particular restaurant which had a hechsher he ate. When he got there he found that the place was closed for a family simcha of the owner. He asked me to go into R' Kuber, and ask him in which of the other options he found he could eat, which hechsher, fish meat, milk etc... R' Kuber said that this is bshas hadchak and therefore he should order the grilled fish in a store with a particular hechsher, and if not... (I don't remember all the exact details)

Offline bochur22

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Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #3977 on: May 29, 2023, 01:23:00 PM »
This, and the lack of elongated toilet seats.
And the handle being on the wrong side of the toilet...

Offline Dan

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Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #3978 on: May 29, 2023, 01:23:20 PM »
Cv.
Uh. Probably one of the top deterrents. Along with Israeli CS.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Yehudaa

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Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #3979 on: May 29, 2023, 01:23:55 PM »
No, it is making a very strong case against living in Israel.

;)
This, and the lack of elongated toilet seats.
If that's why you're not in Israel, I think you gotta pack up and move there :)

ETA: Not saying you have to hold to anyone's standards in particular (for kashrus or toilet seats). Just that if that's what's stopping you, then move there, put your head down and do what you and your rav think is right.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2023, 01:29:30 PM by Yehudaa »