Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1250929 times)

Offline S209

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5380 on: January 08, 2024, 11:30:29 PM »
I've referred people myself. No one takes issue with referrals. It's the deception and purposefully targeting people ignorant of the topic. No, we haven't all done that on any scale
I agree with the deception being an issue. As for the referrals, they likely haven’t thought through the pitfalls of credit cards and simply realized there’s a large market ignorant of credit cards. That’s just referring people at scale. Anyone you introduce to credit cards is ignorant of the topic..
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Online Yehuda57

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5381 on: January 08, 2024, 11:39:09 PM »


I agree with the deception being an issue. As for the referrals, they likely haven’t thought through the pitfalls of credit cards and simply realized there’s a large market ignorant of credit cards. That’s just referring people at scale. Anyone you introduce to credit cards is ignorant of the topic..

Again, it's the marketing. I've referred people who have asked me about CCs. I've also given them my warning spiel. And I would wager the majority of DDFers are the same, they haven't sought out beginners to refer and bring into the game.

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5382 on: January 08, 2024, 11:40:07 PM »
Some only refer people to credit cards when they ask for advice about choosing a credit card
Workflowy. You won't know what you're missing until you try it.

Offline S209

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5383 on: January 08, 2024, 11:43:13 PM »

Again, it's the marketing. I've referred people who have asked me about CCs. I've also given them my warning spiel. And I would wager the majority of DDFers are the same, they haven't sought out beginners to refer and bring into the game.
Good on you. And I’m here to tell you that many DDFers have no qualms about referring people to CCs with no warning speech. Caveat emptor.

I didn’t previously but once you started writing about the pitfalls I have added a solid warning whenever I referred someone to their first credit card. Kol Hakavod.
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Offline yitzgar

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5384 on: January 08, 2024, 11:48:42 PM »
Really? Most people here encourage others (who don't know anything about the parsha) to get credit cards in order to get referral bonuses? Without telling them? I thought most of us were better than that...

Offline Chuchum Ainer

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5385 on: January 08, 2024, 11:54:12 PM »
Good on you. And I’m here to tell you that many DDFers have no qualms about referring people to CCs with no warning speech. Caveat emptor.

I didn’t previously but once you started writing about the pitfalls I have added a solid warning whenever I referred someone to their first credit card. Kol Hakavod.
"Many DDFers" I hope it's a miut. And an even smaller miut that would go out of their way to convince someone who has never had a credit card that they must sign up for a business card and get free money.

Personally I've told a number of friends I won't help them choose a card because I think they'll just get into trouble if they get credit cards.

This guy's shtick is 1) slimy and irresponsible 2) not theft. Not that complicated

Offline S209

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5386 on: January 08, 2024, 11:56:39 PM »
Really? Most people here encourage others (who don't know anything about the parsha) to get credit cards in order to get referral bonuses? Without telling them? I thought most of us were better than that...
Did anybody say most? And did anyone say they don’t tell them they’re getting a referral bonus?

I said many would refer people to get referral bonuses despite the potential pitfalls of credit cards. You’re entitled to your opinion but many people think responsible usage of credit cards is just fine.
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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5387 on: January 08, 2024, 11:59:17 PM »
"Many DDFers" I hope it's a miut. And an even smaller miut that would go out of their way to convince someone who has never had a credit card that they must sign up for a business card and get free money.

Personally I've told a number of friends I won't help them choose a card because I think they'll just get into trouble if they get credit cards.

This guy's shtick is 1) slimy and irresponsible 2) not theft. Not that complicated
Agreed.
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Offline imayid2

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5388 on: January 09, 2024, 12:01:15 AM »
Really? Most people here encourage others (who don't know anything about the parsha) to get credit cards in order to get referral bonuses? Without telling them? I thought most of us were better than that...
What do you mean “who know nothing about the parsha”?

Nearly everyone is already at risk of cc debt from the ones they have. It’s a matter of explaining the perks of a specific SUB.

Offline Euclid

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5389 on: January 09, 2024, 12:09:22 AM »
(On the flip side, I have a friend who's been unemployed for a while (he was in kollel for too long). He's a very responsible person, and I've been begging him to get involved in the game; but I can't seem to convince him no matter how I try.)

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5390 on: January 09, 2024, 12:17:00 AM »
What do you mean “who know nothing about the parsha”?

Nearly everyone is already at risk of cc debt from the ones they have. It’s a matter of explaining the perks of a specific SUB.
You assume that they already have.
And if they do, a new CC may come with a higher credit limit which means more risk.
Workflowy. You won't know what you're missing until you try it.

Offline Ly18

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5391 on: January 09, 2024, 07:12:20 AM »
I personally know the people behind this. There are actually two separate people competing. The one I know better is pretty new to the credit card game (I actually referred him to his first credit card) and began recently with just maximizing his personal referrals, not a regular affiliate program.

They are getting a LOT of sign ups. It’s not a classic case of fraud as in they aren’t stealing from you in any capacity and they actually are helping many who are completely ignorant of credit cards without access to the internet who can gain from this but it’s highly misleading and I think the Toeles Horabim language etc. is wrong (was originally done as a joke). I hope they do spend a few minutes telling you what can go wrong.

Let’s be honest, many of us have done this in some small scale. I earn on plenty of referrals every year, I can name at least a dozen people who I’ve recruited to the game. I am honest with my network but not surprised people omit information when trying to refer people.

As far as I can tell neither of them are fraudsters or inherently dishonest people. Hope they stay that way.
Just causing a $100 loss by competing with the pay for play guys. "I'd love to use your link however are you matching the $100 that is being offered by ploni"...

Offline S209

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5392 on: January 09, 2024, 07:13:25 AM »
Just causing a $100 loss by competing with the pay for play guys. "I'd love to use your link however are you matching the $100 that is being offered by ploni"...
Actually I think they’re offering cash on top of the SUB
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Offline aygart

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5393 on: January 09, 2024, 09:15:17 AM »
Actually I think they’re offering cash on top of the SUB
Litoeles harabim of course
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline WonderingYid

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5394 on: January 09, 2024, 10:52:50 AM »
-1

There are plenty of people who are dishonest. Like, they would straight up lie. Like I said I know these guys and I believe they are honest as in they wouldn’t lie. You’re right that this is deceptive but they probably justify it in their heads and perhaps even tell you about their compensation once you call.
Why do they call themselves “volunteers” when they are being heavily compensated?

Offline S209

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5395 on: January 09, 2024, 11:45:50 AM »
Why do they call themselves “volunteers” when they are being heavily compensated?
IMO as a deceptive advertising practice. They probably justify it to themselves somehow, perhaps by saying they go the extra mile helping people even if they don’t have to?

I spoke to one of them yesterday and he told me now that the referral bonus is down to 75K he told someone to sign up directly for 90K. This is not the one hanging up the signs that say Toeles Horabim, he does this on a much smaller scale.
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Offline WonderingYid

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5396 on: January 09, 2024, 12:13:03 PM »
IMO as a deceptive advertising practice. They probably justify it to themselves somehow, perhaps by saying they go the extra mile helping people even if they don’t have to?

I spoke to one of them yesterday and he told me now that the referral bonus is down to 75K he told someone to sign up directly for 90K. This is not the one hanging up the signs that say Toeles Horabim, he does this on a much smaller scale.
I not quite sure, why you go such great lengths to defend someone who clearly has no issue clearly lying. 

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5397 on: January 09, 2024, 01:48:18 PM »
I not quite sure, why you go such great lengths to defend someone who clearly has no issue clearly lying.
Like I said numerous times I know one of them personally and the other fellow I know of. I very clearly did *not* defend him as I said I personally think it’s wrong and deceptive. And using the word volunteer isn’t necessarily “clearly lying” although it certainly seems deceptive. Have you asked him what he means?
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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5398 on: January 09, 2024, 02:06:49 PM »
I spoke to one of them yesterday and he told me now that the referral bonus is down to 75K he told someone to sign up directly for 90K. This is not the one hanging up the signs that say Toeles Horabim, he does this on a much smaller scale.
Not sure why. I signed a friend up yesterday and compensated the difference :)

Offline Euclid

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5399 on: January 09, 2024, 02:10:57 PM »
Not sure why. I signed a friend up yesterday and compensated the difference :)
How much did you pay him per point?