Author Topic: The Future of Lakewood  (Read 554808 times)

Offline Dave321

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3980 on: November 08, 2023, 12:37:18 PM »
I have to agree, noone has ever heard of the Thomson guy before today. Poor ML who is just sitting in lakewood twp when he could have done this years ago.

Chayala K from JCN was paid 250k or so to run ads. They accomplished what they wanted. It was out of control and next time will mute all those pesky statuses.

Offline dasmo801

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3981 on: November 08, 2023, 12:39:21 PM »
For me it was directly the opposite. I like Schnall as a person, but I doubted his mission. It was the Daas Torah that prompted me to vote for him.

Can someone explain to me why the whole daas torah thing was necessary in this election? The pro Thomson people made a few arguments. Why couldn't those arguments be addressed by the AS campaign without having every rov and RY declaring it a chov kadosh to vote? People here are intelligent for the most part, why were we not treated like adults?

Full disclosure: I voted for AS even though I was bothered by the pro Thomson arguments. 

Offline iwlw2

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3982 on: November 08, 2023, 12:50:08 PM »
Can someone explain to me why the whole daas torah thing was necessary in this election? The pro Thomson people made a few arguments. Why couldn't those arguments be addressed by the AS campaign without having every rov and RY declaring it a chov kadosh to vote? People here are intelligent for the most part, why were we not treated like adults?

Full disclosure: I voted for AS even though I was bothered by the pro Thomson arguments.
Same here. It wasn't so much that i was bothered by the specific arguments pro Thompson, it was more that it was so over the top as to be completely ridiculous, which only makes wonder what they were not saying. As you wrote, the oilam by and large is intelligent enough to vote their best interests so long as that is presented to them in a clear and transparent manner, and it seems to me a waste or misuse of "Daas Torah" to need to come down so heavily for something like this, and can't help but weaken the effectiveness of it for an area where it is truly necessary. Ultimately I voted for AS because it's worth a shot and like others have said its not like Thompson was doing anything much either so no great loss. 

Offline JMHO

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3983 on: November 08, 2023, 01:04:45 PM »
Can someone explain to me why the whole daas torah thing was necessary in this election? The pro Thomson people made a few arguments. Why couldn't those arguments be addressed by the AS campaign without having every rov and RY declaring it a chov kadosh to vote? People here are intelligent for the most part, why were we not treated like adults?

Full disclosure: I voted for AS even though I was bothered by the pro Thomson arguments.
Same here. It wasn't so much that i was bothered by the specific arguments pro Thompson, it was more that it was so over the top as to be completely ridiculous, which only makes wonder what they were not saying. As you wrote, the oilam by and large is intelligent enough to vote their best interests so long as that is presented to them in a clear and transparent manner, and it seems to me a waste or misuse of "Daas Torah" to need to come down so heavily for something like this, and can't help but weaken the effectiveness of it for an area where it is truly necessary. Ultimately I voted for AS because it's worth a shot and like others have said its not like Thompson was doing anything much either so no great loss. 
It's very simple.

How many people voted in the last couple of elections vs yesterday?

Whatever they did worked...

Offline iwlw2

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3984 on: November 08, 2023, 01:18:40 PM »
It's very simple.

How many people voted in the last couple of elections vs yesterday?

Whatever they did worked...
OK numbers.... Here you go as per hefkervelt-
- More than 57% of registered voters in Lakewood did not come out to vote in the election. Lakewood has 58995 registered voters a total of  25,226 ballots were cast  that makes  42.8%  of registered voters who came out to vote  including a full week of early voting.  In 2021 the voter turnout was at 35%. with 57,491 registered voters

So basically the turnout went from 35% to just under 43%. Was all that time, effort, Bittul Torah, money and noise really worth it for that payoff? Maybe, I don't know.
ETA: Also its obviously impossible to say with any certainty, but I would think that a campaign in line with previous ones in which the opportunity for tuition relief would have been spelled out clearly, I'd like to believe would also have signifigantly increased turnout. Would it have been a bit less without all the hoopla, maybe. But that's where you need to decide if the expenditures justify the payoff.
To put it another way, they got approximately 5000 additional votes this time with this campaign than last time with much less, and AS won by almost 10,000 votes. Had they done exactly what they would have done last time he probably still would have won, and just mentioning tuition relief would probably have increased the vote totals substantially as well.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2023, 01:26:00 PM by iwlw2 »

Offline dealfinder11

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3985 on: November 08, 2023, 01:37:30 PM »

Chayala K from JCN was paid 250k or so to run ads.

Hmmmmmm. Source?

Offline aygart

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3986 on: November 08, 2023, 01:51:00 PM »
Once he was running it was essential that he win by a real margin.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline iwlw2

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3987 on: November 08, 2023, 02:09:33 PM »
Once he was running it was essential that he win by a real margin.
No doubt, but assuming that he anyway would have gotten more votes than last time, was it really worth turning the world over so that his margin was 9500 instead of say 6500? Given the fact that he lost heavily in Monmouth, this still would have been a great demonstration of the power of Lakewoods voting bloc

Offline dealfinder11

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3988 on: November 08, 2023, 02:14:30 PM »
No doubt, but assuming that he anyway would have gotten more votes than last time, was it really worth turning the world over so that his margin was 9500 instead of say 6500? Given the fact that he lost heavily in Monmouth, this still would have been a great demonstration of the power of Lakewoods voting bloc

I think it's fair to say that a lot was learned in this election. One of the great unknown variables was the Monmouth Democrat votes. The fact that Schnall had some support among Monmouth democrats was a pleasant surprise.

Offline bochur22

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3989 on: November 08, 2023, 02:21:35 PM »
OK numbers.... Here you go as per hefkervelt-
- More than 57% of registered voters in Lakewood did not come out to vote in the election. Lakewood has 58995 registered voters a total of  25,226 ballots were cast  that makes  42.8%  of registered voters who came out to vote  including a full week of early voting.  In 2021 the voter turnout was at 35%. with 57,491 registered voters

So basically the turnout went from 35% to just under 43%. Was all that time, effort, Bittul Torah, money and noise really worth it for that payoff? Maybe, I don't know.
2021 the governor was running, which boosts turnout. This year, there were no significant statewide or national races on the ballot, so increased turnout shows much more bloc power.

Offline AsherO

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3990 on: November 08, 2023, 02:26:44 PM »
No doubt, but assuming that he anyway would have gotten more votes than last time, was it really worth turning the world over so that his margin was 9500 instead of say 6500? Given the fact that he lost heavily in Monmouth, this still would have been a great demonstration of the power of Lakewoods voting bloc

I donít think they had such a tight handle of the votes-ROI of their campaign that they couldíve controlled it like that
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline iwlw2

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3991 on: November 08, 2023, 02:29:55 PM »
2021 the governor was running, which boosts turnout. This year, there were no significant statewide or national races on the ballot, so increased turnout shows much more bloc power.
We are all dealing in hypotheticals and suppositions so theres no way to know for sure, but I am not sure that governor running vs. a less over the top but still concerted effort to get the word out about the important issues at stake in this election would have resulted in so much less of a turnout, but who knows.
The main thing is, hopefully this result will be blessed with alot of siyata dishmaya for all of us to see real positive outcomes from it. And at least the robocalls will stop for now so thats already positive  ;)

Offline bochur22

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3992 on: November 08, 2023, 02:33:38 PM »
Can someone explain to me why the whole daas torah thing was necessary in this election? The pro Thomson people made a few arguments. Why couldn't those arguments be addressed by the AS campaign without having every rov and RY declaring it a chov kadosh to vote? People here are intelligent for the most part, why were we not treated like adults?

Full disclosure: I voted for AS even though I was bothered by the pro Thomson arguments.
Most of the Taanos against him were addressed by the UENJ leaflets. The problem is that most of the Taanos were downright dumb.  They put out explainers, held a Q&A session with UENJ, and had a Q&A with Schnall. Exactly what more did you want?

Offline AsherO

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3993 on: November 08, 2023, 02:35:31 PM »
Chayala K from JCN was paid 250k or so to run ads. They accomplished what they wanted. It was out of control and next time will mute all those pesky statuses.

Terrorism!
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Offline JMHO

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3994 on: November 08, 2023, 02:36:23 PM »
42.8%  of registered voters who came out to vote  including a full week of early voting.  In 2021 the voter turnout was at 35%. with 57,491 registered voters

So basically the turnout went from 35% to just under 43%.

2021 the governor was running, which boosts turnout. This year, there were no significant statewide or national races on the ballot, so increased turnout shows much more bloc power.

What was the turnout in 2019?

Offline JMHO

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3995 on: November 08, 2023, 02:36:56 PM »
It was out of control and next time will mute all those pesky statuses.
Don't wait till next time, do it now!

Offline bochur22

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3996 on: November 08, 2023, 02:40:48 PM »
We are all dealing in hypotheticals and suppositions so theres no way to know for sure, but I am not sure that governor running vs. a less over the top but still concerted effort to get the word out about the important issues at stake in this election would have resulted in so much less of a turnout, but who knows.
You can say there's no way to know for sure, but you can compare lakewood turnout for governor election vs. non-governor election years:
2021:35% (Governor)
2019: 16%
2015: 22%

Offline iwlw2

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3997 on: November 08, 2023, 03:04:05 PM »
You can say there's no way to know for sure, but you can compare lakewood turnout for governor election vs. non-governor election years:
2021:35% (Governor)
2019: 16%
2015: 22%
You guys are all conveniently ignoring the end of that sentence-the fact that tuition relief was on the ballot this time, which I would imagine would boost local lakewood turnout more that a governor being on the ballot. But I conceded that I am just conjecturing and guessing.

Offline Dave321

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3998 on: November 08, 2023, 03:28:54 PM »
next up get rid of Bob singer. no reason why we dont have 2 frum assembly and senator. Lets move on from him

Offline JMHO

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3999 on: November 08, 2023, 03:29:13 PM »
2023: With pulling out all the stops, 43%
2021: 35% (Governor)
2019: 16%
2015: 22%

Why don't people vote? What am I missing here?! It don't think it's a time thing as you can vote by mail, early voting, weekends etc. there are many options. I don't think it's a Hashkafa issue that's preventing people, especially this election where we saw such strong Rabbinic backing.

Is it just laziness?