Author Topic: The Future of Lakewood  (Read 703770 times)

Offline jye

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4500 on: March 08, 2024, 03:57:36 AM »
Sukkos time the sun is basically centered above the equater, thus EY being like 34 degrees off.
That, my friends, is why you also have to know earth science….

Offline jye

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4501 on: March 08, 2024, 04:40:47 AM »
The sun on the hottest day of the year gets to just about 23 degrees latitude above the equator. Eretz Yisroel is about 34 degrees north. That means that the sun is always at least on an 11 degree angle coming down over Eretz Yisroel.

According to one shitta in the Gemara in Sukkah, a Sukkah that is more than 20 amos high is only pasul when the width and length are both just 7 tefachim - because then the shade is coming from the walls. But in a sukkah that is larger than 7x7, you can make it higher than 20 amos because the shade will come from the sechach.

But if you figure 11 degrees of angle on the sunlight, and to commutate using sin cos and tan, you will see that in a 7x7 sukkah the sunlight coming on 11 degrees will only make it about 8 amos down the wall, not nearly the 20 amos needed?

And that, my students, is why you need to know trigonometry.

ETA:

Nice cheshbon except that the Gemara actually says there IS NO צל סכך when it is more than 7x7 wide. What the Gemara actually says is that if the succah is more than ד׳ אמות wide it is ok even above כ׳ אמה according to one שיטה because then you will have צל סכך.

Also, keep in mind that the sun can come it at a diagonal from corner to corner as well, making the ratio approximately 5.6 Amos wide by 20 Amos tall.

Given these measurements there will be צל סכך for several weeks out of the year. So long as the succah is made in a way that provides צל at some point of the year that would suffice, as we find סוכת גנב״ך ורקב”ש is considered עשוי לשם צל.

And that, my friends, is why you should look things up in the Gemara.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2024, 04:44:34 AM by jye »

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4502 on: March 08, 2024, 07:52:58 AM »
We already see it with the higher percentage of conspiracy theorists and antivaxxers in the chasidish and now the yeshivish communities. There's a reason measles spread through our communities exclusively. It can be directly tied to a suspiciousness of science.

Not this again. I hope you've received the appropriate dress down in the two pages of comments after this I haven't read

Offline Darth1

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4503 on: March 08, 2024, 09:16:10 AM »
Nice cheshbon except that the Gemara actually says there IS NO צל סכך when it is more than 7x7 wide. What the Gemara actually says is that if the succah is more than ד׳ אמות wide it is ok even above כ׳ אמה according to one שיטה because then you will have צל סכך.
In a brief look myself I did not find any gemara that says "there IS NO צל סכך when it is more than 7x7 wide" at most you can see that this is inferred from the next line you wrote that more than ד׳ אמות wide for sure has. From the gemara it is unclear what pshat is in 7x7. Maybe @YitzyS understood the reason for R Chanan to be because of shade. (I seem to recall there is a mehalech as such I just cant find it now.)
Also, keep in mind that the sun can come it at a diagonal from corner to corner as well, making the ratio approximately 5.6 Amos wide by 20 Amos tall.
Iiuc this is not true according to the way the achronim learn tosfos on 3a that the machlokes in the gemara is only about width and not length (as apposed to square area)
And that, my friends, is why you should look things up in the Gemara.

Offline aygart

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4504 on: March 08, 2024, 09:34:36 AM »
.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline imayid2

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4505 on: March 08, 2024, 09:54:43 AM »
.
Lol this type of stuff is considered pure heresy in Lakewood.

It does in fact lead to some uncomfortable questions, much of Galen and Hippocrates has been utterly disproven, and why do we keep וסת החודש…

Offline dasmo801

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4506 on: March 08, 2024, 10:01:09 AM »
We already see it with the higher percentage of conspiracy theorists and antivaxxers in the chasidish and now the yeshivish communities. There's a reason measles spread through our communities exclusively. It can be directly tied to a suspiciousness of science.

But in those very same communities, people with cancer don't avoid chemotherapy. And antivaxxism is a alive and well in highly educated sectors of the general population as well. 

Offline TheAsh

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4507 on: March 08, 2024, 10:19:41 AM »
Check out @JewishAlternativeMusic2 on Telegram.

Offline aygart

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Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline YitzyS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4509 on: March 08, 2024, 01:57:53 PM »
Nice cheshbon except that the Gemara actually says there IS NO צל סכך when it is more than 7x7 wide. What the Gemara actually says is that if the succah is more than ד׳ אמות wide it is ok even above כ׳ אמה according to one שיטה because then you will have צל סכך.

Also, keep in mind that the sun can come it at a diagonal from corner to corner as well, making the ratio approximately 5.6 Amos wide by 20 Amos tall.

Given these measurements there will be צל סכך for several weeks out of the year. So long as the succah is made in a way that provides צל at some point of the year that would suffice, as we find סוכת גנב״ך ורקב”ש is considered עשוי לשם צל.
I didn't see the gemara in a few years, so I'm probably remembering it wrong. And indeed...

And that, my friends, is why you should look things up in the Gemara.

Offline imayid2

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4510 on: March 09, 2024, 07:59:05 PM »
Maybe I'll open my own school🤷‍♂️
@TheAsh if you try opening such a scool that touts secular studies the way you've described here it'll be in cherem before you can blink. The mafia is vicious, the last guy they went after just lost his life...

Offline imayid2

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4511 on: March 09, 2024, 08:05:39 PM »
Rabbi Slomawitz was given a very hard time when he opened the first mesivta that taught English here.

Offline gogreen

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4512 on: March 09, 2024, 10:15:17 PM »
Rabbi Slomawitz was given a very hard time when he opened the first mesivta that taught English here.
That was 25 years ago; has Weinbergers or Berkowitz-Pinter had any problems?

Offline imayid2

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4513 on: March 09, 2024, 10:16:01 PM »
That was 25 years ago; has Weinbergers or Berkowitz-Pinter had any problems?
Can’t imagine

Offline shlomoandtam

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4514 on: March 09, 2024, 11:00:51 PM »
Do you think there's an audience in Lakewood for an Element ary school or mesivta that takes General Studies seriously?

On the par of a Chofetz Chaim or Torah Vedaas or YBH?
Chofetz Chaim did attempt to open a high school this year, however, they didn't get enough guys. They plan on trying again next year.

Online Euclid

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4515 on: March 09, 2024, 11:08:06 PM »
Chofetz Chaim did attempt to open a high school this year, however, they didn't get enough guys. They plan on trying again next year.
That's targeting a different crowd though. There should be plenty of typical yeshivish bochurim from families that want general studies for a regular Lakewood mesivta.

Offline aygart

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4516 on: March 09, 2024, 11:27:14 PM »
Chofetz Chaim did attempt to open a high school this year, however, they didn't get enough guys. They plan on trying again next year.
They have been trying for over 20 years.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline TheAsh

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4517 on: March 09, 2024, 11:29:22 PM »
What are you trying to show?

That antivaxxers avoid chemo...
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Offline TheAsh

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4518 on: March 09, 2024, 11:29:55 PM »
That was 25 years ago; has Weinbergers or Berkowitz-Pinter had any problems?

No, but these schools barely teach English. They teach life skills.
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Offline TheAsh

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4519 on: March 09, 2024, 11:30:25 PM »
@TheAsh if you try opening such a scool that touts secular studies the way you've described here it'll be in cherem before you can blink. The mafia is vicious, the last guy they went after just lost his life...

I'll probably be put in cherem quicker for other reasons...
.
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