Pesach Program Discussion Master Thread

[moko]

With 50 people I needed a full time mashgiach just to watch the single omelette station, because matter how many times we told the staff not to turn on the flame themselves they still tried to turn on the flame themselves.

With 2400 people,

remove or disable the ignitor. Quote a simple solution. Can be disabled by simply turning it away from the gas.should be standard protocol.
We have a relatively heimish midrange program. So no all day poolside bbq or sushi station.
We had 3 mashgichim most of the day.
Anytime there are action stations in the dining/ tea room, we have a Mashgiach there. So if you have 2 kitchens and action stations going, you need a minimum of 3 mashgichim.
Plus an hour checking place settings before every meal.
They also don't work more than 8 hours daily..
I calculate my coverage by adding up all the hours and dividing by 8.

[avromie7]

This might be the wrong place, as apparently this thread is only the thread to poop on Pesach programs, but we spent yom tov, with the Werner brothers and kmr, and could not be more impressed! Truly a program well done, from food, to kashrus, to venue.

CMIIW, but I believe they are significantly more expensive than most of these programs, and it's for good reason.

[momo]

CMIIW, but I believe they are significantly more expensive than most of these programs, and it's for good reason.

Definitely more expensive then the local ny programs, but i dont think much more than the other "luxury" out of town programs.

[Something Fishy]

remove or disable the ignitor. Quote a simple solution. Can be disabled by simply turning it away from the gas.should be standard protocol.

Never thought of that! Fantastic idea.

[Dan]

Definitely more expensive then the local ny programs, but i dont think much more than the other "luxury" out of town programs.

Can you share the cost?

[daybyday]

With 50 people I needed a full time mashgiach just to watch the single omelette station, because matter how many times we told the staff not to turn on the flame themselves they still tried to turn on the flame themselves.

With 2400 people,

As someone who worked as a mashgiach for Pesach programs throughout my single years, I must agree that 5 mashgichim is an absolute joke for a program of this size. I worked with a team of 6 mashgichim in a program that had about 400 people and it never felt like we were overstaffed. The head mashgiach and his wife took shifts as well.
5 mashgichim for such a large program sounds like they were almost unsupervised entirely.
Of course this all being said on the assumption that they actually only had 5 mashgichim on staff.

[chbochur]

Do these programs not have a hashgacha? If so isn't this the hashgacha's problem rather then the person running the program?

[YitzyS]

Coming next Pesach: The DansDeals Pesach DO Program. Run by Fishy, Lectures by Dan and JJ, etc.

Problem is that it won't make a penny as all guests will book with points...

[yelped]

Coming next Pesach: The DansDeals Pesach DO Program. Run by Fishy, Lectures by Dan and JJ, etc.

Problem is that it won't make a penny as all guests will book with points...

Airlines make a pretty penny from booking with points...

[aygart]

Have people book the hotel with points and pay for the program.

[JMHO]

Do these programs not have a hashgacha? If so isn't this the hashgacha's problem rather then the person running the program?

Most programs that I've seen have a 'Rav Hamachshir', not a Hashgacha agency.

The customer has to take responsibility too... how many customers choose a program based on (or even inquire about) the Hashgacha? It seems like the location and entertainment are the biggest (and possibly, only) determining factors.

[YitzyS]

Have people book the hotel with points and pay for the program.

Or better yet, we just all do it in Dan's house. What's 24 or 240?

[Moshe Green]

Do these programs not have a hashgacha? If so isn't this the hashgacha's problem rather then the person running the program?

I've heard that the OU doesn't give a Hechsher to any (or almost 0) programs for this exact reason.

[cholent]

I've heard that the OU doesn't give a Hechsher to any (or almost 0) programs for this exact reason.

Or possibly more accurate to say that programs don't want the OU once they find out what their hashgacha would entail

[chbochur]

Most programs that I've seen have a 'Rav Hamachshir', not a Hashgacha agency.

The customer has to take responsibility too... how many customers choose a program based on (or even inquire about) the Hashgacha? It seems like the location and entertainment are the biggest (and possibly, only) determining factors.

So why is there even a discussion about it? It should be on the rav hamachshir who is taking responsibility for it, again not the person running the programs responsibility.

[Something Fishy]

So why is there even a discussion about it? It should be on the rav hamachshir who is taking responsibility for it, again not the person running the programs responsibility.

There are a number of reasons why I plan on never running a Pesach program, but this is #1.

I know firsthand the enormous challenges involved in keeping things at a high kashrus level on a regular program. On Pesach everything is a thousand times more complicated and quite frankly it terrifies me. I can have the best mashigichim and kashrus agencies but at the end of the day the buck stops with me, and that's just not something I'm willing to take responsibility for.

(I'm not casting aspersions on any program, I honestly have no first hand experience with any. Just sharing my personal rationale here.)

See bold and red.

[Yehudaa]

So why is there even a discussion about it? It should be on the rav hamachshir who is taking responsibility for it, again not the person running the programs responsibility.

Ultimately if there are kashrus issues I don't think it's unreasonable to mention it in one's review.

Whether it's the fault of the program or the rav hamachshir (or both), it's still somethng that consumers probably want to know about.

[aygart]

So why is there even a discussion about it? It should be on the rav hamachshir who is taking responsibility for it, again not the person running the programs responsibility.

Who hired the Rav Hamachshir?

[chbochur]

Ultimately if there are kashrus issues then I don't think it's unreasonable to mention it in one's review.

Whether it's the fault of the program or the rav hamachshir (or both), it's still somethng that consumers probably want to know about.

Agreed. But at the very least mention in the review who the rav hamachshir was. As he should be the one taking the blows for that part.

[chbochur]

Who hired the Rav Hamachshir?

Well what's the point of the rav hamachshir if he has no say?