Author Topic: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?  (Read 23598 times)

Offline Lurker

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #160 on: March 10, 2021, 02:00:52 PM »
Well to be considered shomer shabbos it just needs to be beparhesia

Not true and not relevant.
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Offline neveryou

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #161 on: March 10, 2021, 02:45:39 PM »
Not true and not relevant.
How do you think they get mashgichim?

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #162 on: March 10, 2021, 02:49:09 PM »
How do you think they get mashgichim?

They ask who's careful to keep shabbos b'farhesia?  :o
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Offline yerushabubby

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #163 on: March 10, 2021, 03:01:01 PM »
Well to be considered shomer shabbos it just needs to be beparhesia

It probably depends on the situation, as well as who you ask.  I know of a situation where a young man was not frum, but took pains to hide his chillul Shabbos from his family.  The parents were told that they did not need to worry about their son handling wine etc in the home, but he could not be motzei anyone with his Kiddush or Havdalla.

Offline Something Fishy

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #164 on: March 10, 2021, 03:06:32 PM »
The parents were told that they did not need to worry about their son handling wine etc in the home

I know someone who only uses mevushal wine when his son is in the house, as this son uses the Boro Park eruv.



(How many degrees of separation are we from the OP at this point ;D?)
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #165 on: March 10, 2021, 03:08:10 PM »
I know someone who only uses mevushal wine when his son is in the house, as this son uses the Boro Park eruv.



(How many degrees of separation are we from the OP at this point ;D?)

I would only use mevushal wine if I was eating with someone who only uses mevushal wine when his son is in the house as this son uses the Boro Park eruv.
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Offline EliJelly

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #166 on: March 10, 2021, 03:09:24 PM »
I know someone who only uses mevushal wine when his son is in the house, as this son uses the Boro Park eruv.

NK insider story :D

Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #167 on: March 10, 2021, 03:28:53 PM »
Is surviving abuse something you think needs to be disclosed before any dates? At what point should it be brought up? I'm assuming you don't expect to see it on a résumé...


Definitely needs to be disclosed at some point, with authoritative rabbinical guidance. It's at least as pertinent to a marriage as most manageable medical and psychiatric conditions.



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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #168 on: March 10, 2021, 03:29:01 PM »
NK insider story :D

Speaking of not sharing pictures...  Full circle, ladies and gentlemen! Well done!
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #169 on: March 10, 2021, 03:30:28 PM »

Definitely needs to be disclosed at some point, with authoritative rabbinical guidance. It's at least as pertinent to a marriage as most manageable medical and psychiatric conditions.


Of course it needs to be disclosed. The question is at which point.
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Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #170 on: March 10, 2021, 03:34:16 PM »
I dispute the notion that an OTD sibling should be a flag for abuse. We cry about having an OTD crisis, an abuse crisis, a parnassah crisis, a mental health crisis, a drug crisis, an education crisis, a leadership crisis, a technology crisis, and 10,000 other crises. All of these are causes for people going OTD. In Lubavitch today, I'd venture to say that more than 30% of all families have an OTD kid. I say 30%, but I personally believe it's double that. I don't believe this is super unique to Lubavitch. Honestly, if someone sends me a perfect résumé with no "flags", that's the biggest flag of all. That people hear "abuse" when someone says "OTD" is so wrong on so many levels.

In the yeshivish community I populate, it's lower than 30%. However, I'm sure that more than 30% of families have a child that was abused. In the general population, about 16% of kids are abused during childhood. Even if the number is half that in our circles, that's still way over 30% of families. Dismissing every shidduch because you happen to know about an abused sibling is like assuming every household with married parents has shalom bayis. It's not realistic.

Offline neveryou

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #171 on: March 10, 2021, 03:35:37 PM »
They ask who's careful to keep shabbos b'farhesia?  :o
Speak to people involved in kashrus for wine, the ones that do production for a few months at a time. They get "bochrim" to do the work.

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #172 on: March 10, 2021, 03:40:41 PM »
Speak to people involved in kashrus for wine, the ones that do production for a few months at a time. They get "bochrim" to do the work.
Are ''bochrim'' a term for mechalelei shabbosos b'tzinah?? I hope not

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #173 on: March 10, 2021, 03:46:54 PM »
In the yeshivish community I populate, it's lower than 30%. However, I'm sure that more than 30% of families have a child that was abused. In the general population, about 16% of kids are abused during childhood. Even if the number is half that in our circles, that's still way over 30% of families. Dismissing every shidduch because you happen to know about an abused sibling is like assuming every household with married parents has shalom bayis. It's not realistic.

+1.

Re the 30%, I have no real idea what the numbers are in any given community.  What I do know is that the numbers are higher than most people assume. People would be shocked at what goes on in certain sub-groups within many communities, and IME it's more widespread than you'd think. Have a real open conversation with people in the more chilled groups in your community if you really want to know more.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #174 on: March 10, 2021, 03:50:19 PM »
Speak to people involved in kashrus for wine, the ones that do production for a few months at a time. They get "bochrim" to do the work.

All I know is that if you know someone is not shomer shabbos, even if they are careful not to do anything in public, their kitchen is not considered kosher. There are heterim, but you don't need a heter for a shomer shabbos...

Regardless, we're not getting into the halachic technicalities. Someone who isn't keeping shabbos, even in private, is not "on the derech."
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Offline aygart

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #175 on: March 10, 2021, 04:29:06 PM »
Of course.

I've gone out 5 times with a guy and it meant nothing.

what do you mean by "it meant nothing"? At what point was it clear that it meant nothing?
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Offline aygart

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #176 on: March 10, 2021, 04:33:09 PM »
Well to be considered shomer shabbos it just needs to be beparhesia
Without accepting the premise, what about farhesia when out of the parent's town?
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Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #177 on: March 10, 2021, 05:17:16 PM »
+1.

Re the 30%, I have no real idea what the numbers are in any given community.  What I do know is that the numbers are higher than most people assume. People would be shocked at what goes on in certain sub-groups within many communities, and IME it's more widespread than you'd think. Have a real open conversation with people in the more chilled groups in your community if you really want to know more.

Abuse has nothing to do with chilled or not chilled. It doesn't really discriminate by religious denomination. It's rampant everywhere, whether we'd like to admit it or not.

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #178 on: March 10, 2021, 05:24:05 PM »
Abuse has nothing to do with chilled or not chilled. It doesn't really discriminate by religious denomination. It's rampant everywhere, whether we'd like to admit it or not.

Two separate comments. "+1" on the abuse. The chilled thing was regarding what you said about less than 30% of families having an OTD family member in your community. IMO, they are completely different issues that just happen to have some crossover.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #179 on: March 10, 2021, 05:26:24 PM »
30% sounds high to me, but who knows.
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