Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?

[Lurker]

If the research has been done right, then there should be very few cases that don't warrant another look.

Unfortunately, that's a big if. I want to see an initiative that teaches  those in the parsha and their parents what questions to ask (both of others and themselves) and what to look for. Would save a lot of heartache all around.

[mmgfarb]

Long story short, that we're discussing sending pictures as an actual issue in the world of shidduchim, as if it ranks anywhere in the top 50 of real problems, is baffling to me.

I'm reading through this thread now and I have some thoughts on the topic which I may or may not end up sharing but I just got to this post and just wanted to say, this 👆 1000% this.

ETA: Not that pictures isn't something that should be addressed, but people who think that this is an issue that urgently needs to be solved in order to fix the shidduch system are missing the forest for the tree stump.

[zh cohen]

My question is if it's the wrong thing to send pictures why would they continue doing after 30 days

The way I understand it, they believe it is less than ideal but not assur. Therefore they generally will go with what people want. They are making a commitment to make this improvement for some time, presumably with the hope that it will convince more people not the go back to using pictures.

[zh cohen]

If the research has been done right, then there should be very few cases that don't warrant another look.

Can't the same be said about saying no based on a picture (and even more so)?

[Zalc]

Can't the same be said about saying no based on a picture (and even more so)?

I'm not sure if I understand what you are Implying.

You can't convey a soul or emotions via a photo, or via research, it needs to be experienced firsthand by the couple, and it often takes more than a 1st outing to see it.

Research done well will highlight the obvious compatibilities and vice versa, but never to the point that a photo can seal the deal.

Edit: "research done well" is a larger problem than photos IMO, and it's much harder to educate the parents who are all grown up, then the young adults.

[mmgfarb]

The way I understand it, they believe it is less than ideal but not assur. Therefore they generally will go with what people want. They are making a commitment to make this improvement for some time, presumably with the hope that it will convince more people not the go back to using pictures.

It's utterly ridiculous, 30 days does absolutely nothing.

[Lurker]

It's utterly ridiculous, 30 days does absolutely nothing.

It's like going vegan for 30 days. Pure virtue signalling.

[mmgfarb]

why do people who need pictures (Mothers not boys)

I take major exception to this and it's one of the things that bothered me about this "initiative." They mention that if absolutely necessary, they'll send the picture to the mother. Excuse my french but what in the living H*LL?! Why does a mother have to see a picture of a girl that her son is deciding whether or not to go out with? Is the mother supposed to be attracted to her daughter-in-law? Is she supposed to decide what her son should be, or is already, attracted to? Don't these people realize that this whole mess was started by ridiculous mothers who started asking for pictures in the first place?

[avromie7]

This should be a standing rule IMO. There are very very few cases where saying no after one date is right.

I think I may have said this previously somewhere on DDF, but I'll repeat it.

When I started dating, my rebbi told me 2 things:
1) Always see her before going out.
2) Never say no after 1 date.
He said the reason is because generally the reason people say no after 1 date is because of appearance, and the same girls are likely to be rejected after 1 date very often and it can be very hurtful.

[mmgfarb]

It's like going vegan for 30 days. Pure virtue signalling.

They're coming from a good place, I get that but maybe if these shadchanim took it upon themselves to take extra time while thinking about matches for 30 days and only send guys the one or two resumes that they really think are the most shayich, we would actually start getting somewhere.

[avromie7]

Can't the same be said about saying no based on a picture (and even more so)?

Not at all, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, there is very little that research can do.

[mmgfarb]

I think I may have said this previously somewhere on DDF, but I'll repeat it.

When I started dating, my rebbi told me 2 things:
1) Always see her before going out.
2) Never say no after 1 date.
He said the reason is because generally the reason people say no after 1 date is because of appearance, and the same girls are likely to be rejected after 1 date very often and it can be very hurtful.

I don't know who your rebbi is and I probably do have respect for him but I respectfully disagree. You're combining two things into one and turning it into something that it isn't. If you saw a picture and were attracted enough to go out with her, you shouldn't be saying no after one date because of looks, you already knew what she looked like. And if you didn't see a picture and were completely turned off by her looks after you went out, you're not doing anyone any favors by going on a second "chessed" date, if anything you're making it worse by getting someone's hopes up if they actually liked you and you know you're not going to go out again after the second date.

[Dan]

You don't think it's possible that two people meet and it's quickly evident to both of them that there's no potential (whether for hashkafic disparities, life vision disparities, personality disparities, or plain old they can't stand each other)?

Possible, sure. But more often there's just jitters or people take time to warm up and you won't know which one it is if you punt after one date.

[mmgfarb]

Possible, sure. But more often there's just jitters or people take time to warm up and you won't know which one it is if you punt after one date.

But it's also entirely possible to go out with someone and know for sure that it isn't going to go anywhere. I think to some extent, "adults" have respect the ability for people in shidduchim to say "This person just isn't going to be my partner."

ETA: A lot of it comes down to how intuitive someone is, some people can't tell but others are able to adjust for the first date jitters and such and can get a pretty good grasp of what someone is like.

[Yehuda57]

I think to some extent, "adults" have respect the ability for people in shidduchim

What is this you speak of? Setting people up because you feel they are old, mature, and wise enough to get married, but not feeling the need to baby and control them every step of the process? That's preposterous.

[mmgfarb]

What is this you speak of? Setting people up because you feel they are old, mature, and wise enough to get married, but not feeling the need to baby and control them every step of the process? That's preposterous.

It's like you feel like they're mature enough to take on the responsibility of a spouse and children but not mature enough to decide who that person is.
(I know your post was facetious, and was going to respond in kind it's just a major pet peeve of mine )

[Yehuda57]

@mmgfarb has arrived and he ain't takin' no prisoners

[mmgfarb]

@mmgfarb has arrived and he ain't takin' no prisoners

Zactly

[zh cohen]

Not at all, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, there is very little that research can do.

If someone can look at a picture and say that the looks are not for them, then seeing them in person for one date for sure does the same thing.

I believe that neither is enough to decide about looks because the way you perceive a person's physical features changes when you get to know them. My point is that it is inconsistent to say that you can decide based on a picture but can't decide based on one date.

[mmgfarb]

If someone can look at a picture and say that the looks are not for them, then seeing them in person for one date for sure does the same thing.

I believe that neither is enough to decide about looks because the way you perceive a person's physical features changes when you get to know them. My point is that it is inconsistent to say that you can decide based on a picture but can't decide based on one date.

Agreed