Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken

[Moshe123]

The statement from the OK is very weak sauce, while confirming there was treifos.
Heads should roll.

Speaking to many people today. You have no idea how much damage OK did to their hechsher brand today. Everything happens very quickly today.

I was discussing with a friend if we need to pressure Izzy's (our favorite place) to get a better hechsher, because I might not be touching any OK establishment going forward.

The allegations aren't that something was missed or something happened. It's that the system was rotten with flashing red lights.

[joe1234]

Your sure?

based on yudel shain... say what you want about him but he's usually spot on in when it comes to research like this.... a lot of times he may come to a conclusion based off of his "evidence" which is according to his discretion, but he is very transparent on how he came to the conclusion, and you can disagree, but its very hard to disagree on his facts...

[joe1234]

everything is OK, nothing to see here... move on...

[aygart]

They should STATE that in the STATEMENT.

Anything less than stating the following:

There was non-kosher meat served
or
We believe there was non-kosher meat served
or
We suspect that there was non-kosher meat served

is being intentionally vague.

1. For what purpose? Your curiosity?
2. I presume they are still investigating?

[aygart]

A mashgiach once told me that a hechsher of a retail food establishment boils down to trusting the owner,
if the owner is not trustworthy a hechsher doesn't do much

In that case you can never give to a non jew

[Moshe123]

The יהי רצון at the end of the letter. Yikes.

שנשמע ונתבשר בשורות טובות.
Moving on. Nothing to see here....

They should be holding a press conference and falling on their knees. I don't know how they can sleep.

[imayid2]

FTR Corelle dishes have the status of glass according to most and wouldn’t need kashering according to many. ALOR of course.

[EliJelly]

I was discussing with a friend if we need to pressure Izzy's (our favorite place) to get a better hechsher, because I might not be touching any OK establishment going forward.

I remember wondering as well why they don't have a CH local hecsher but only a national hecsher. Somehow it feels uncomfortable when a local establishment, especially when part of a kehilla is just having a big national hashgacha.

[yuneeq]

As long as no kitniyos on Pesach there's no reason.

Unfortunately reminded me of non-frum Ashkenazi relatives...they wouldn't eat kitniyos at our house on Pesach, but don't keep kosher year round...

[Moshe123]

I remember wondering as well why they don't have a CH local hecsher but only a national hecsher. Somehow it feels uncomfortable when a local establishment, especially when part of a kehilla is just having a big national hashgacha.

Explained by being a few doors down from OK office.

[avromie7]

Is there anything written from Reb Moshe on which Reb Reuven bases this idea upon?

On טמטום הלב I recall a contradicting opinion from the poskim and Ohr H'Chaim/Sifrei Chasidus. What comes to mind first is קטן אוכל נבילות which is totally permitted according to the Torah yet the poskim write to refrain because it causes טמטום הלב.

Rav Green Zatza"l (magid shiur in Staten Island under Rav Moshe) once asked Rav Moshe about the meshech chochmah who says there is timtum halev, and Rav Moshe said "we can disagree with the meshech chochmah". Rav Reuven says that everything he says still stands even if you go with the meshech chochmah, because there is a solution for timtum halev - learn torah (and IIRC do mitzvos, but I need to double check).

ETA: He says learn torah and work on yiras shamayim.

[avromie7]

FTR Corelle dishes have the status of glass according to most and wouldn’t need kashering according to many. ALOR of course.

Or need kashering and can't be kashered.

[aygart]

based on yudel shain... say what you want about him but he's usually spot on in when it comes to research like this.... a lot of times he may come to a conclusion based off of his "evidence" which is according to his discretion, but he is very transparent on how he came to the conclusion, and you can disagree, but its very hard to disagree on his facts...

Beh

[S209]

Is there anything written from Reb Moshe on which Reb Reuven bases this idea upon?

On טמטום הלב I recall a contradicting opinion from the poskim and Ohr H'Chaim/Sifrei Chasidus. What comes to mind first is קטן אוכל נבילות which is totally permitted according to the Torah yet the poskim write to refrain because it causes טמטום הלב.

IIRC someone once showed me this from R’ Moshe in אגרות משה beshem his father.

[imayid2]

Or need kashering and can't be koshered.

That is only for pesach according to many/most

[aygart]

Re timtum there is a tshuvos Ben ish Chai that says there is none IIRC

[Sam 77]

Where is @YitzyS? He's usually very busy in such threads

[incendia]

A part of the problem as to why this keeps happening is because of the people that kasharus agencies hire.

Mashgchim may (or may not) know the ins and outs of kasharus but we would probably be better served if they had science, accounting, or investigative backgrounds.

[WonderingYid]

based on yudel shain... say what you want about him but he's usually spot on in when it comes to research like this.... a lot of times he may come to a conclusion based off of his "evidence" which is according to his discretion, but he is very transparent on how he came to the conclusion, and you can disagree, but its very hard to disagree on his facts...

The same family owns other restaurants?

[joe1234]

A part of the problem as to why this keeps happening is because of the people that kasharus agencies hire.

Mashgchim may (or may not) know the ins and outs of kasharus but we would probably be better served if they had science, accounting, or investigative backgrounds.

how much do you want to pay for your sandwich?