Author Topic: Messianism among Lubavitch  (Read 385872 times)

Offline jj1000

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 13767
  • Total likes: 6366
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 29367
    • View Profile
  • Location: The value of a forum such as this one is not in that one can post a question and receive an answer, but in that the question has most likely been asked before, and the answer is available to him that will but only use the search function.
  • Programs: 1. Search on google. 2. Search in the right board of DDF with a general word or two. 3. Read the wiki. 4. Read the thread. 5. Ask away.
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1600 on: January 12, 2024, 03:20:20 PM »
I always thought that the reasoning why they wouldn’t eat Lubavitcher meat
was because they can’t tell the difference between dead and alive 🤷🏻‍♂️
How many lubavitchers does it take to change a light bulb?

None, the light never died.

How many litvaks does it take to change a lightbulb?

It doesn't matter; they have no humor.
See my 5 step program to your left <--

(Real signature under my location)

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 31125
  • Total likes: 8059
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1601 on: January 12, 2024, 03:36:36 PM »
When this thread is locked again, please consider what was gained by unlocking it, and keep that in mind next time.
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline imayid2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 2379
  • Total likes: 2271
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1602 on: January 12, 2024, 03:43:19 PM »
When this thread is locked again, please consider what was gained by unlocking it, and keep that in mind next time.
Shouldn’t the barometer be if the thread turned into a food fight or something?

I mean, there are many threads you can ask the question of what do people gain from. This conversation was stayed pretty civil if you ask me, so adaraba I’d say it was a good run.

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 31125
  • Total likes: 8059
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1603 on: January 12, 2024, 04:21:00 PM »
Shouldn’t the barometer be if the thread turned into a food fight or something?

I mean, there are many threads you can ask the question of what do people gain from. This conversation was stayed pretty civil if you ask me, so adaraba I’d say it was a good run.

It was a good run, and then it was locked. I asked what was gained by unlocking it.
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline imayid2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 2379
  • Total likes: 2271
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1604 on: January 12, 2024, 04:27:34 PM »
It was a good run, and then it was locked. I asked what was gained by unlocking it.
I got to share some of my perspective, and see some others, so mark me down as a gain.

Offline yelped

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2015
  • Posts: 11237
  • Total likes: 4113
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 43
    • View Profile
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1605 on: January 13, 2024, 08:14:45 PM »
I'm still waiting for some of the meat, were a bit thin on details here.

Offline imayid2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 2379
  • Total likes: 2271
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1606 on: January 13, 2024, 08:21:30 PM »
What about if someone believes in spontaneous generation because the Gemara is pretty clear that they believed that, are they intellectually destroyed?
I thought this article made a good point:
https://daastorah.substack.com/p/the-rebbe-is-still-alive-just-open

(I assume the Lubavitcher writer is only representative of Meshichists?)

Offline EliJelly

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 3246
  • Total likes: 3699
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1607 on: January 13, 2024, 09:48:53 PM »
I'm still waiting for some of the meat, were a bit thin on details here.

Throw in your perspective, will Moshiach be a Modzitzer rebbe, the Komarner or Reb Hershele Lisker? :)

Offline imayid2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 2379
  • Total likes: 2271
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1608 on: January 13, 2024, 09:57:10 PM »
What about the donkey, is that literal? Transportation has come along a bit since then…

Guess we’ll need to wait and find out.

Offline yelped

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2015
  • Posts: 11237
  • Total likes: 4113
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 43
    • View Profile
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1609 on: January 13, 2024, 10:21:29 PM »
Throw in your perspective, will Moshiach be a Modzitzer rebbe, the Komarner or Reb Hershele Lisker? :)
I have no clue and no preference and would just love for Mashiach to come. I have my Rebbes (as above, plus), but I don't see why I should think any of them (even if currently alive) should be Mashiach. We should go all be mekabel Mashiach and that's it. It's not a dream of mine that my Rebbe should be Mashiach.

Offline EliJelly

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 3246
  • Total likes: 3699
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1610 on: January 13, 2024, 10:24:11 PM »
I have no clue and no preference and would just love for Mashiach to come. I have my Rebbes (as above, plus), but I don't see why I should think any of them (even if currently alive) should be Mashiach. We should go all be mekabel Mashiach and that's it. It's not a dream of mine that my Rebbe should be Mashiach.

Exactly my point... It was never a thing anywhere. Wanted a chosid to echo what I wrote here.

What is the earliest source in Chabad that the Rebbe is the מלך המשיח? Did the Rashab ever called his father or grandfather so? Contrary to what others have pushed upthread, that language was NEVER used anywhere else, to the contrary, there was once a time when certain people applied that to their Rebbe and it was rebuked by the gedolei h'dor. (I can post sources to that)

Offline EliJelly

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 3246
  • Total likes: 3699
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1611 on: January 13, 2024, 10:28:39 PM »
What about the donkey, is that literal? Transportation has come along a bit since then…

Guess we’ll need to wait and find out.

The donkey described is not simply a reference for a transportation method, it's a very significant donkey.

השכים אברהם בבקר ולקח את ישמעאל ואת אליעזר ואת יצחק בנו עמו, וחבש את החמור, הוא שרכב עליו אברהם, הוא החמור בן האתון שנבראת בין השמשות, שנ' וישכם אברהם בבקר, הוא החמור שרכב עליו משה בבאו למצרים, שנ' ויקח משה את אשתו ואת בניו וירכיבם על החמור, הוא החמור שעתיד בן דוד לרכוב עליו, שנאמר (זכריה ט, ט) עָנִי וְרֹכֵב עַל חֲמוֹר.

Offline imayid2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 2379
  • Total likes: 2271
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1612 on: January 13, 2024, 10:31:38 PM »
there was once a time when certain people applied that to their Rebbe and it was rebuked by the gedolei h'dor. (I can post sources to that)
Breslov?

Offline EliJelly

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 3246
  • Total likes: 3699
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile

Offline imayid2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 2379
  • Total likes: 2271
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1614 on: January 13, 2024, 10:36:30 PM »
The donkey described is not simply a reference for a transportation method, it's a very significant donkey.

השכים אברהם בבקר ולקח את ישמעאל ואת אליעזר ואת יצחק בנו עמו, וחבש את החמור, הוא שרכב עליו אברהם, הוא החמור בן האתון שנבראת בין השמשות, שנ' וישכם אברהם בבקר, הוא החמור שרכב עליו משה בבאו למצרים, שנ' ויקח משה את אשתו ואת בניו וירכיבם על החמור, הוא החמור שעתיד בן דוד לרכוב עליו, שנאמר (זכריה ט, ט) עָנִי וְרֹכֵב עַל חֲמוֹר.
Yup

Looked around a bit, some indeed explain it non literally, noticed the Aberbenal for example. Nice piece about it from the Rebbe actually.

(Seems to me they are taking hocking in learn of Rav Chaim a bit too seriously, but see here:[


Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 69228
  • Total likes: 17713
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline imayid2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 2379
  • Total likes: 2271
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1616 on: January 13, 2024, 10:39:12 PM »
No, some in Vishnitz in the times of the צמח צדיק.

https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/reader/reader.aspx?sfid=29166#p=147&fitMode=fitwidth&hlts=&ocr=

https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/reader/reader.aspx?sfid=1495#p=155&fitMode=fitwidth&hlts=&ocr=
Soundd interesting, never heard of that. Will check it out.

I remember something about the Rizhener and בית משיח, what was that about?

Offline YitzyS

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 5734
  • Total likes: 13958
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 34
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood, NJ
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1617 on: January 13, 2024, 10:39:26 PM »
What about the donkey, is that literal? Transportation has come along a bit since then…

Guess we’ll need to wait and find out.

From an article in the Asbury Park Press from 2018:

“When the Messiah comes, it says the Messiah is going to come on a donkey,” Shain said. “You know why? That’s going to be the fastest way of getting around Lakewood.”

Offline imayid2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 2379
  • Total likes: 2271
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1618 on: January 13, 2024, 10:41:00 PM »

From an article in the Asbury Park Press from 2018:

“When the Messiah comes, it says the Messiah is going to come on a donkey,” Shain said. “You know why? That’s going to be the fastest way of getting around Lakewood.”
ALOL

Offline YitzyS

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 5734
  • Total likes: 13958
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 34
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood, NJ
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1619 on: January 13, 2024, 10:42:54 PM »